The British Empire

[David Floyd]

Setting aside the question of whether or not the British had a right to an empire in the first place (for the record, I don't think they did), or whether or not imperialism is wrong (IMO, it is), was the presence of the British positive or negative, overall, in terms of the development/"civilization" of regions such as Africa, India, Australia/NZ, US, Canada, etc.?

Whaddya think?

[Ben Kenobi]

http://www.britannia.com/rulebrit.html

When Britain first at Heav'n's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain;

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The nations not so blest as thee,
Shall in their turns to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Still mor majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame,
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

To thee belongs the rural reign;
They cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to juide the fair.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.


That answer your question, David?

[Mr. President]

It was neither positive nor negative. It simply was.

[Serb]

Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by David Floyd
Setting aside the question of whether or not the British had a right to an empire in the first place (for the record, I don't think they did), or whether or not imperialism is wrong (IMO, it is), was the presence of the British positive or negative, overall, in terms of the development/"civilization" of regions such as Africa, India, Australia/NZ, US, Canada, etc.?

Whaddya think?

Of course it was negative. Thanks to British imperialism now world has such country as USA.

Have a nice day.

[Lord Merciless]

Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Serb


Of course it was negative. Thanks to British imperialism now world has such country as USA.

Have a nice day.

It it had not been for us, you guys would mostly likely be speaking German today (which may not be a bad thing).

The Kaiser would have won it all if Britain and the US had not fought Germany in WWI. You Russkies and Frenchies were no match for them.

[Cruddy]

Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


It it had not been for us, you guys would mostly likely be speaking German today (which may not be a bad thing).

....

On what basis do you assume the US would not also be a German or Japanese speaking area today if history had taken a different turn?

[Cruddy]

Re: Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Serb


Of course it was negative. Thanks to British imperialism now world has such country as USA.

Have a nice day.

Ah, but the birth of the US was the FAILURE of the Brit Empire, wasn't it Serb?

That's like blaming the US for the Khmer Rouge. Or the USSR for the Taliban.

To get back on topic, I'd say that the balance was SLIGHTLY positive, but only in the context of when it was all finished. It was certainly an unjust and rapacious system while it flourished (to the majority of the population of the UK, as well as the overseas "subjects").

[Lord Merciless]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Cruddy


On what basis do you assume the US would not also be a German or Japanese speaking area today if history had taken a different turn?

The US Congress almost voted to use German as its working language. I believe it failed by only a few votes.

Had the US stayed stayed out of WW1, the Entente would have never beaten Germany. British morale were crushed after the defeat after the 3rd battle of Ypres and 2/3 of French army mutinied in 1917. A stalemate at Western front implied German victory since they grabbed the entire Ukraine.

Had both the US and Great Britain stayed out of WW1, the French would have been crushed before Christmas 1914, and the Russians maybe one or two years later.

[Cruddy]

Today Europe, tomorrow Zer VORLD!!!

[Dis]

the germans would have never been able to take over the U.S.

Let me put it this way, no nation will ever be able to conquer the U.S. by direct military action.

The only way to defeat us is from within...

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


It it had not been for us, you guys would mostly likely be speaking German today (which may not be a bad thing).

What makes you think so?
We won WW2 not you are. You have no idea about war our grandfathers fought. Russians crushed nazi war machine. You disembarked in 1944 when we were on our way to Berlin, to grab at least something in Europe before commies will take everything. Saying that without Americans Russians "would mostly likely be speaking German today" is saying a complete, total and pure bullsh!t.

The Kaiser would have won it all if Britain and the US had not fought Germany in WWI. You Russkies and Frenchies were no match for them.

Only during 3,5 months of 1916 summer offensive campaign of Russian South-West front, Austrian-German forces lost 1,5 millions of soldiers (including 408 000 POW). Perhaps American army during WW1 has somewhere equal achievments? I doubt.
Super warriors my ass. You are pretty good in creation of myths such as myths about your involvements in WW1 & WW2.


have a nice day.

[Drake Tungsten]

You have no idea about war our grandfathers fought. Russians crushed nazi war machine.

With American equipment. You Russkies are nothing without the help of the good ol' US of A.

[Serb]

The overall share of American equipment used by Soviets was 5%. The share of German casualties on Russian front in their overall casualties, was 80% for manpower and 75% for their tanks, aircrafts, artilery and any other euipment.
Case is closed.

[Lord Merciless]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The British Empire

Originally posted by Serb

What makes you think so?
We won WW2 not you are. You have no idea about war our grandfathers fought. Russians crushed nazi war machine. You disembarked in 1944 when we were on our way to Berlin, to grab at least something in Europe before commies will take everything. Saying that without Americans Russians "would mostly likely be speaking German today" is saying a complete, total and pure bullsh!t.

Who's talking about WW2? I'm talking about WW1, you silly person. You and your Frenchie friends alone never had a chance against the German and Austrian might. The war would be over in 1915.

Only during 3,5 months of 1916 summer offensive campaign of Russian South-West front, Austrian-German forces lost 1,5 millions of soldiers (including 408 000 POW). Perhaps American army during WW1 has somewhere equal achievments? I doubt.
Super warriors my ass. You are pretty good in creation of myths such as myths about your involvements in WW1 & WW2.

Let's see what happened during that summer: Germans were tied up mostly in Somme, a British initiated offensive. Brusilov sneaked upon some wimpy Austrians and advanced about 50 kilometers. Germany then deployed just one army group from Verdun and your offensive was stopped cold. The Russian loss was just as heavy as the Austrian-German loss.

Despite Americans entering the war in the following year and supporting the Entente with almost unlimited weapons, you Russkies still collapsed in 1917. Germans occupied the entire Belarus and Ukraine before the commies fell to their knees.

[Drake Tungsten]

The overall share of American equipment used by Soviets was 5%.

Source? My BS detector is reading some high levels on that statement.