What are your plans?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Often, the same conservatives who complain that homosexuals constantly seem to fail to embrace family values, advocate for laws that prevent or discourage homosexuals from embracing such family values.

You DO understand what 'family values' means, don't you? Any homosexual relationship would go against what religious conservatives would consider 'family values'. The only way for a conservative to say that a homosexual has embraced family values is if he went straight.

[Gangerolf]

family values = pc-ness

as in "hey! this is a family site!!"

[Lord Merciless]

I think gay pride movement is just as silly as a long penis power movement.

I'm interested in your sexual orientation as much as your anatomic features.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Often, the same conservatives who complain that homosexuals constantly seem to fail to embrace family values, advocate for laws that prevent or discourage homosexuals from embracing such family values.

You DO understand what 'family values' means, don't you? Any homosexual relationship would go against what religious conservatives would consider 'family values'. The only way for a conservative to say that a homosexual has embraced family values is if he went straight.

But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples.

[MattyBoy]

Here's a tip.
Next time you want to send a message to gays only, please indicate that in the thread title.
Save the rest of the world from opening the thread.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Asher
I honestly don't know who there are more of. Of the people I hang out with, the vast majority of them are monogamous.

On the other hand, the club scene is likely much different.

This is my sense of it was well. Most of the gay men I know are monogomous, but they are also late 30s-40s, so age may play a role. My best friend lives in Hollywood (he writes) and his neighbors are a couple of guys who met in the Navy in WW2. Talk about monogomy!

I know a lot more lesbians for some reason, and almost all of them claim to be monogomous, but about half of them cheat like there's no tomorrow. I find it very interesting that I tend to know a lot more about the sex lives of my gay and lesbian friends than my straight friends. Believe me, I don't pry, people just like to talk to me. I'm not sure why there is a disparity.

[MrFun]

Anyway, back to the thread's original topic . . . . . .

[Imran Siddiqui]

But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples.

Because the idea of 'family values' is an inclusive, open one? Come on!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples.

Because the idea of 'family values' is an inclusive, open one? Come on!

Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda?

And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values.

The desire to create and establish a stable, secure family is a universal one -- it is not exclusive. However, right wing propagandists want to deny that a number of homosexuals have this same, universal desire.

[Giancarlo]

And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child?

Well not all right wingers are like that. I am not like that.

Anyways.. my parents did a good job accepting me when I told them about my sexuality. They support me strongly no matter what.. and that is a definition of strong family values. Supporting their children, no matter their sexual orientation, is truly strong family values.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda?

Because it can't! It was created by religious right folk in order to demonize single parents and homosexuals! There is no way the term cannot be inclusive. Not a chance in Hell!

And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values.

That IS family values! That's the whole point! One man, One woman, kids... that's it! You can't make it inclusive, because that is what it means!

[MrFun]

Fez, when I use the term right wing, I usually use it to refer to the extreme right -- not mainstream conservatives.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by MrFun
Fez, when I use the term right wing, I usually use it to refer to the extreme right -- not mainstream conservatives.

Or perhaps a better term to use is religious right nutcases. The name that makes me cringe whenever I hear it has to be Phelps..

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda?

Because it can't! It was created by religious right folk in order to demonize single parents and homosexuals! There is no way the term cannot be inclusive. Not a chance in Hell!

And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values.

That IS family values! That's the whole point! One man, One woman, kids... that's it! You can't make it inclusive, because that is what it means!

That is a socially constructed perception of family values that denies social recognition of homosexuals' humanity. Seeking to create a family is a universal desire -- no matter what form that family takes.

[Monk]

Mr. Fun,

I think you're missing Imran's point. You really have to understand fully that it's a made-up, bogus word for repression of other people. That's why you ought to abolish the use of the term completely, because it's indirectly discriminatory. Even if it technically means something else in your ears. Naturally, there are other ways of expressing love for your family or whoever than through that exact term.

I also disagree about your perception of family as a "universal desire". Some people actually prefer going without.