Immigration

[Dinner]

Originally posted by elijah
You can have no idea how much I want to take a suped up mini cooper down that road right now!!!

Ha! Your Cooper would end up like a bug on the grill of a giant Caddy.

[Whaleboy]

The caddy would be run off the road when it runs out of fuel after 4 miles!!!

[St Leo]

LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!


The BNP will crack down on crime and restore public safety and confidence. We will free the police and courts from the politically correct straitjacket that is stopping them from doing their job properly. The liberal fixation with the ‘rights’ of criminals must be replaced by concern for the rights of victims, and the right of innocent people not to become victims. We support the re-introduction of corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals, and the restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute, as by DNA evidence or being caught red-handed.

If BNP ever gets elected, crime (especially violent crime) rates will skyrocket

[Agathon]

Originally posted by elijah
You're all with the pictures today Agathon!! No offense, but it looks like a 1988 Ford Escort!!

Defintely a Corona.

Plenty of Escorts around too (although the earlier models are most sought after). It's the car of choice of the boy racer.

My mate used to have a reddish mk1 Escort with a sticker saying "Watch my behind not hers" and an 8 ball for a gearstick knob.

Woo hoo... fast and furious

[St Leo]

Why does being more diverse make a culture stronger?

It doesn't make a culture stronger. It makes a country stronger.

[cinch]

It doesn't make a culture stronger. It makes a country stronger.

I suppose it may be different in a country that wasn't founded by immigration (in the modern sense), but I think immigration definitely helps Canada. We bring in the talented people to fill the needed positions, which helps our economy, which makes it okay for us to take in a few more refugees or what have you.

Although, since I live immediately next door to one of the two major federal immigration processing centres in the country, perhaps the gubmint has brainwashed me...

Nah, that's unlikely.

to immigration.
to multiculturalism.

[Al B. Sure!]

i got sick in my stomach reading elijah's posts especially that one where he broke down the BNP's policies... i'm not playing... physically sick...

but this took the cake...

Also a waste to society as these people can be re-habbed.

You ****ing try to rehab someone who raped and tortured a 12 year old girl then slit her throat...

People saying it's immoral to let the gov't kill! it's ****ing twice as immoral to let that son of a ***** live a full life and experience the beauty of the sun and blue skies... the feeling of a beating heart and air in his lungs... all while the innocent was so wrongly robbed of such greatness... THAT IS IMMORAL! THAT IS NOT HUMAN RIGHTS!

[Whaleboy]

"You ****ing try to rehab someone who raped and tortured a 12 year old girl then slit her throat"

In order to do that, one clearly has some degree of mental illness, so it does not help anyone, barring the victims family who get a sense of revenge (which is hardly a good basis for a modern justice system), to lock them up in prison to merely rot. One should instead use psychiatric treatment to cure that illness, and turn that person into a productive member of society.

"People saying it's immoral to let the gov't kill! it's ****ing twice as immoral to let that son of a ***** live a full life and experience the beauty of the sun and blue skies... the feeling of a beating heart and air in his lungs... all while the innocent was so wrongly robbed of such greatness... THAT IS IMMORAL! THAT IS NOT HUMAN RIGHTS! "

In this hypothetical situation, the innocent is already dead, taking the killer through hell and back is not going to bring the victim back to life. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is not a reasonable, logical or justified basis for a system of justice, Sure the stick must be used as well as the carrot, but simply defaulting to the stick is hardly a productive way to go about things. This is not the 12th century, and I like to think we have a greater sensibility than then, in order to solve such problems to society as immoral criminals.

To ruin someones life, instead of attempting to repair the obvious damage that caused them to perpetrate such acts, that is immoral, as it succumbs to the vigilante element of emotional victims, who, with all respect to their loss, are not in an objective or informed place to decide over the life of the accused individual.

The foul langauge of your post supports my argument that such subjective "morality" is a highly emotional, and thus illogical, irrational and unreasoned way of solving such a difficult problem to society.

[Whaleboy]

Also, what is the alternative you are proposing? From the tone of your post am I correct in inferring you prefer the option of capital punishment or corporal punishment or life imprisonment? If so, see my above post.

[Dinner]

Elijah most places have given up on rehabing serious criminals. Look back to the hay day of rehabilitation and light sentences, the 1970s, and how successful do you think rehab was? The recitivism rate for violent offenders was something like 70% with in 2 years. Not onkly was it ungodly expensive but it didn't work to boot.

That's why most people in America now have a "throw the book at'em" mentality because locking up those people who act like animals works and has resulted in the lowest crime rates in two generations.

[Al B. Sure!]

Elijah:

I am all for 'rehabilatation' of economic criminals (drug dealers, muggers, etc) and even spur of the moment killers... but anyone who pre-meditated torture, rape, and murder of a lady is beyond rehabiliation... i dont care what you say... i dont see how it is possible to fix that person...

furthermore, it does not respond to the great injustice of such a vile person living a full life (even having freedom as you seem to allude to!) while an innocent victim suffered so much and has been denied the beauty of living...

[Whaleboy]

"Elijah most places have given up on rehabing serious criminals."

Mainly for political reasons, and because they did not devote enough resources to it. It should also be integrated with the education system to catch problem students at a young age. It didnt work due to technical failings, not conceptual failings.

It didnt work for the same reasons.

"That's why most people in America now have a "throw the book at'em" mentality because locking up those people who act like animals works and has resulted in the lowest crime rates in two generations"

In general, crime in some inner cities is as high as ever, and meantime, America with something like 4% of the worlds population has 25% of the worlds prison population.

"i dont care what you say... i dont see how it is possible to fix that person..."

I see it the other way round. Economic killers and criminals do it for greed, which is unfortunately a human instinct. As such, they are least likely to be cured.

I am a libertarian, and a very peaceful man. Anytime I get violent thoughts, something in my mind switches, and I instantly reject the thought, and feel a little sick at the prospect. Someone who harbours and acts on such violent thoughts, in other words a cold blooded killer/rapist etc, obviously doesnt have that switch that the rest of us have, that stops us from killing. All we need to do is reenable that switch. Psychology is a very young science, it is making fantastic progress, and soon, it is reasonable to say that most if not all "killing illnesses" for want of a better phrase can be cured.

"furthermore, it does not respond to the great injustice of such a vile person living a full life"

Whats wrong with that? They killed, they were convicted, they had freedom taken away, they may have been shamed (although I think that is immature and shuold stop but thats another issue), they have been "fixed". I see no reason, other than the subjective whim of the victim and their perpetual desire for revenge, why that person cannot live a full life. He was convicted of a crime, served his time during which he recovered from the illness that made him kill, and is otherwise a completely normal (for all intents and purposes), functional member of society. You going to judge them for what they did in the past, what they are never going to do again, or what they can do in the future to make amends. He would also have to live with what he has done, a punishment that nothing any state can offer will come close to. If he has recovered, he will feel it.

[Whaleboy]

However, which other parts of my posts made you "sick to your stomach"?

Its all very well using flowery langauge, but I respond best to reason.

[Al B. Sure!]

Elijah:

Drug dealers are incurable while serial rapists are curable...

i'll tell you how to cure a drug dealer... give him the education and a job that would make him money... no need to be a dealer then. (though some young boys would still slang just for the kick of playing gangster)

a serial rapist though... ever think he's just a perverted, no good bastard who is willing to torment a lady just so he can get some *****? i dont like this twisting of him into some kind of victim of chemical inbalances...

[Whaleboy]

"i'll tell you how to cure a drug dealer... give him the education and a job that would make him money... no need to be a dealer then"

When you have the contacts and ability to make more money in a week than most do in a year by selling drugs, then one generally takes the risk of being caught for that kind of gain. It is greed. Nothing mental, nothing out of the ordinary, just a little too much greed, and perhaps a little to much disregard for society and authority.

" a serial rapist though... ever think he's just a perverted, no good bastard who is willing to torment a lady just so he can get some *****? i dont like this twisting of him into some kind of victim of chemical inbalances"

Why not? Can you provide a better explanation? Is it something that people randomly do? If so, why have I never had the urge to rape someone, or most law abiding people.

It is caused by a chemical imbalance, and once people get over the simplistic notion of them being "bad people", then we can actually get down to the nitty gritty and address this issue, instead of taking the simplistic, flawed approach of sweeping them under the proverbial rug!

Ultimately, I'd rather see men working, bring productive, and being happy, despite their pasts, than being wasted and miserable, simply to please some desire for revenge. If they have been fixed, then they can work to redeem themselves in their minds and in societies eyes. Revenge wont bring a murder victim back, it is a fallacy. Lets not base our justice systems on such a nation.