Blair Determined not to give British People a say on new EU Constitution

[Worthingtons]

But the media influences everything, the fact most of the media seems against Europe shoudnt suddenly mean we can't have a vote on it

[Zulu Elephant]

I read in the Guardian that Germany doesn't hold referenda because of the Nazis abused the system.
Does anyone know what the Nazis did?

[Worthingtons]

Used extreme propaganda
Used fear tactics to get people to vote as they wished
Prevented certain opposition groups from making thier vote

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Rothy
But the media influences everything, the fact most of the media seems against Europe shoudnt suddenly mean we can't have a vote on it

I don't mind the media being against Europe at all. What I don't like is the way they make it into some continuation of the second world war. It's the kind of crap you hear from football hooligans.

[Zulu Elephant]

Originally posted by Rothy
Used extreme propaganda
Used fear tactics to get people to vote as they wished
Prevented certain opposition groups from making thier vote

Yeah, but what the hell did the Nazis hold a referendum on?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I can't believe people saying that we shouldn't have a referendum as people are too stupid to decide such complex issues. Why bother having elections after all.

There is a difference between stupid and uninformed.

I would be happy enough with a referendum, I just don't think the results would be a vote on our best interests, but on our collective feelings towards Europe. I don't think the alternative, a free vote by politicians, is much better but I think it would at least be more geared towards our better interests.

[MikeH]

Like... if they had a referendum on bringing back hanging it'd get back in.

[Worthingtons]

Yes, because that's what democracy is about!
The people should have a say, I think Hanging would be a good idea for repeating sex offenders and such (or Capital punishment should i say, Hanging is a somewhat old fashioned method).


Image edited by Ming... Just because using an IMG tag can allows you to get past the censor and use four letter words THAT THE OWNERS DON'T WANT YOU TO USE, doesn't make it ok to do so.

[MikeH]

If you let everyone vote on every issue like a true democracy the country would be in terrible trouble. That's why we have a parlimentary system instead. You have people whos job it is to understand all the issues pertaining to running the country.

[Worthingtons]

The problem is when a group of people are voted into power to make such decisions but then go against what they promised pre-election (eg Student Grants!) and start acting like a dictatorship.
There needs to be a system where the people have to vote on Major issues, or where thier vote carries a significant weighting...

[TheStinger]

I think referndums should be only used when the way in which the country is governed is to be changed. So introducing reginal assemblies should have referndums, going to war should not.

[MikeH]

One of the problems with referendums is the way the questions are phrased. You'd just put the power into the hands of the people who decide what are major issues and decide what questions to ask.

eg.

Do you want us to spend more money on schools?

or

Do you want us to take more money out of your pay each month?

or

Do you want us to take more money out of your pay each month to spend on schools?

Obviously it can be a lot more subtle than that though. Plus it'd cost a fortune educating everyone about the issues they had to vote on.

[Worthingtons]

Very True, so perhaps Stinger has the solution. For decisions affecting the gotv itself and how it runs the country we have a referendum.

[MikeH]

Which is basically the current system.

[TheStinger]

The current sytem is we'll have a referendum if we can win it.If Blair and Brown thought they could win a euro vote we would ahe the reerndum tomorrow