Blair Determined not to give British People a say on new EU Constitution

[Solly]

Look for my response earlier in this thread.

If that's the only argument you can resort to, it looks pretty poor on your part.

[*End Is Forever*]

http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Have you sent UWA your £10000 cheque yet? Put your money where your mouth is...

Is n't this page 1 material?

The best part of a week and dozens of posts later youre back where you started, you'll make a good politician.

[Worthingtons]

On The Student Funding i'm with EiF - You're not paying it for Twice tho, it's three times

Not only is it the extra Income tax we'll pay, and the Tuition Fees, but also the cost of not working for 3/4 years while we do our degree - years of lost income while we educate ourselves to eventually do better and therefore make the country more prosperous.

[MikeH]

Except the actual cost of our education is a lot higher than the fees we pay.

[*End Is Forever*]

However, it isn't higher than the extra tax we personally pay as a result of having a degree... and that's even before you consider the myriad of spinoffs from that extra productivity.

[Dauphin]

Perhaps we should do away with fees and award every student a £1,000 grant at the end of each completed term for living expenses. Then when they leave university they pay student tax of 5-10% (variable on income) on their earnings until they pay off the debt amount of fees and any grants. If you want you can factor in the increase in the debt owed at the rate of inflation and lost interest, say 5% p.a.

Surely this makes sense if you want to marry up cost/benefit of education without deterring the poor from seeking education. Its vaguely what happens with student loans isn't it? (I don't actually know because I never needed one)

[Solly]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
However, it isn't higher than the extra tax we personally pay as a result of having a degree... and that's even before you consider the myriad of spinoffs from that extra productivity.

The majority of the gains accrue to the individual who invests in education.

But true, the government gains too, so long as the education is successful. I'd thus be able to argue as a compromise that the government should contribute somewhat to the education, but less than half.

[MikeH]

We only pay more tax because we earn more. You can't count that as a negative thing.

[*End Is Forever*]

From the Times today (er, yesterday)...

HUGE overdrafts and loans can seem so daunting that increasing numbers of students say they are a price not worth paying for a degree.

Money problems and fear of debt are the main reasons why young people from disadvantaged families are likely to opt out of higher education or to drop out of university before graduating, says the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

Professor Andy Furlong and his colleague Dr Alasdair Forsyth, both from the department of sociology and anthropology at the University of Glasgow, who conducted the research, say that their results depict a disturbing trend.

(my bold)

"Debt Takes Toll", The Times, 22/05/03

[Solly]

HUGE overdrafts and loans can seem so daunting that increasing numbers of students say they are a price not worth paying for a degree.

Well it boils down to the economics of investment then doesn't it.

If potential students don't think the potential benefits are greater than the opportunity cost and accrued debt, they are quite rational in not wishing to attend university.

There is an argument that university works only as a screen anyway...

[Solly]

Iain, I think we are both arguing for the same end result - that parental incomes should have no bearing on opportunity to attend university.

[Bereta_Eder]

brits are funny


blah, blah, blah then you do what you're told.