Rugby - Advantage!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar


*laugh till I cough, splutter and choke*

Pardon my mirth!

I have never written I am not telling everyone what I am thinking about them.

I wouldn't bet on us in a fit in the forthcoming Test. Not missing just about an entire first-choice backline, and at least one second-choice also unavailable.

Sounds like a pre-emptive excuse...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I have never written I am not telling everyone what I am thinking about them.

But we are all mindreaders!

Sounds like a pre-emptive excuse...

A-ha. I'm not claiming the Wallabies to be the best team in the world. If I were, it might be. Small but crucial difference.

[Havak]

Thanks Havak, the Stade Toulousain was running after a second H Cup since 1996...

Welcome to the double winners club. Now all we need to do is qualify for the tournament to have a chance of grabbing your crown.

Sporting Union Agenais are the Gloucester of French rugby then? Followed by s***** fans?

But not for much longer. God Bless Les Grenouilles and their - cough - "salary cap".

On which note Frank Tournaire just joined them too. Have they found a pot of gold somewhere?

Get his hopes up, withdraw the offer.

Are we that cruel? (Rhetorical)

Well, it had been a while. Just testing your reflexes.

Intact and working thank you.

Pre-emptive excuse noted.

Actually I rather meant it more to put in context the inevitable praise they will get for winning 40% of the ball (wow!) whilst still only ten games or so into their season.

Yes, they're ready and waiting. Good grief, I'm starting to sound like a Kiwi. Still, that's how highly I rate them.

They must be good then – because the players they are facing (locks and flankers) are proven world class and didn’t cry off the autumn games for a nice rest.

Yes, but justifiable homicide - aka doing the species a very big favour - is a bit different

If Healey were the only player he had ever gone postal on that would be fair enough – but of course he isn’t.

Children and alcohol, a dangerous combination.

He is the guy you talked about who scored a try out wide several years ago and dreams of repeating it. He actually looks badly out of shape from the piccies I’ve seen – a real old fashioned heffer of a prop?

I wouldn't bet on us in a fit in the forthcoming Test. Not missing just about an entire first-choice backline, and at least one second-choice also unavailable

If you want to talk pre-emptive excuses this scripting is perfect for us being handed a whupping.

God imagine it – years and years of Aussies saying “we whupped you with a third string”. I feel quite ill even thinking about it.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Welcome to the double winners club.

Sporting Union Agenais are the Gloucester of French rugby then? Followed by s***** fans?

On which note Frank Tournaire just joined them too. Have they found a pot of gold somewhere?

Call in the auditors, I say. So what do we think the spend is up to now? Herbert? Robertson? Luger? Tournaine? Let's start with Herbert - if he went there for less than Leicester, how much would he have earned at Leicester?

They must be good then – because the players they are facing (locks and flankers) are proven world class and didn’t cry off the autumn games for a nice rest.

I can't wait. Oh, and not a word after the event about playing on hard grounds in a different hemisphere?

If Healey were the only player he had ever gone postal on that would be fair enough – but of course he isn’t.

You surely have to allow a certain amount of practice?

He is the guy you talked about who scored a try out wide several years ago and dreams of repeating it. He actually looks badly out of shape from the piccies I’ve seen – a real old fashioned heffer of a prop?

A real porker. The intercept try was the worst thing that ever happened to him. He has ability but doesn't work hard enough to improve his game.

If you want to talk pre-emptive excuses this scripting is perfect for us being handed a whupping.

If so, you've had a very off day.

God imagine it – years and years of Aussies saying “we whupped you with a third string”. I feel quite ill even thinking about it.

Well, we went close to winning with an out-of-form, understrength outfit in November. The same team - no, in fact, a weaker team than that which struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish.

[Havak]

if he went there for less than Leicester, how much would he have earned at Leicester?

I’m not privy to the amounts – no one is outside of the loop. But it wouldn’t have been stellar (on the books at least). Maybe 120-150K with the consultancies added in. What would staying S-12 have got him (I did read a BBC report suggesting the S-12 average wage was around 45K. Must try to dig up the link)?

I can't wait. Oh, and not a word after the event about playing on hard grounds in a different hemisphere?

No of course, after all your mobs didn’t complain about the weather, the ref, the ground, time of year, colour of the sky or even the length of the damn grass now did they?

You surely have to allow a certain amount of practice?

Do we, or the authorities, apply the same leniency to lock jaw?

He has ability but doesn't work hard enough to improve his game.

You said it yourself – the primary duty of a prop is the engine room. Followed by the lineout and supporting at the breakdown. He should be out wide only in an emergency and preferably only when you are going forward at that.

If so, you've had a very off day.

Hell, on paper we should walk it. But you know how I feel about matches in your backyard. Playing 15 men is one thing – playing the whole nation is another.

Let me know when Channel 7 starts building up England as the villainous team that mugged your Mum, stole Bruce’s beer, ran off with your Sheila’s favourite jewelry and took the mickey out of your glorious flag. You know it will happen.

Well, we went close to winning with an out-of-form, understrength outfit in November. The same team - no, in fact, a weaker team than that which struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish.

I love that expression ‘went close to winning’. What a lovely way of saying ‘lost a commanding lead’ or even ‘exposed severe defensive frailties but then blew it'?



Actually that game taught us more than it did you I think – and we have of course grown since it, nailing the Slam and beating Ireland comprehensively at the same venue of your failure, and just four months later.

This tour is I think our best ever chance of turning you both over in consecutive games down there – but I’m not arrogant enough to assume it’s a certainty.

[Tamerlin]

The Midi Olympique has announced what would be the yearly salaries of some of the new players of the USAP:

- Daniel Herbert 213 000 €
- Scott Robertson 180 000 €
- Dan Luger and Franck Tournaire between 140 000 and 170 000 €

[Alexander's Horse]

Hey finbar, you showing up friday night to play civ? deity and trev are.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Hey finbar, you showing up friday night to play civ? deity and trev are.

I replied in that thread.

You see what I mean? The posters are much more interesting here.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
The Midi Olympique has announced what would be the yearly salaries of some of the new players of the USAP:

- Daniel Herbert 213 000 ?
- Scott Robertson 180 000 ?
- Dan Luger and Franck Tournaire between 140 000 and 170 000 ?

You mean it's speculation? Hmmm. They're quoting $OZ388,000 for Herbert and $OZ327,000 for Robertson even without the other two. Manny Edmonds wouldn't be on peanuts, so where on earth are they getting the money?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by finbar


You see what I mean? The posters are much more interesting here.

I agree the endless bickering on the MP thread does get a bit boorish.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Maybe 120-150K with the consultancies added in. What would staying S-12 have got him (I did read a BBC report suggesting the S-12 average wage was around 45K. Must try to dig up the link)?

Are you talking pounds? If so, that's up to $OZ380,000, a lot more than he'd be getting for S12. It's hard to know the average S12 wage because the differential between top and bottom is huge, even before you add on the top players' extras like sponsorship, etc. I suppose the average would have to be somewhere around the figure you quote. And I'd imagine Herbert would have been on something like - in total - about $OZ175-200,000.

No of course, after all your mobs didn?t complain about the weather, the ref, the ground, time of year, colour of the sky or even the length of the damn grass now did they?

I didn't hear a peep.

Do we, or the authorities, apply the same leniency to lock jaw?

Nor we - or they - should.

Hell, on paper we should walk it. But you know how I feel about matches in your backyard. Playing 15 men is one thing ? playing the whole nation is another.

Well, I have pointed out in the past that we did it twice to win two World Cups. But then you pointed out they were the two luckiest wins in World Cup history. So look on the bright side - maybe you'll get lucky.

Let me know when Channel 7 starts building up England as the villainous team that mugged your Mum, stole Bruce?s beer, ran off with your Sheila?s favourite jewelry and took the mickey out of your glorious flag. You know it will happen.

Channel 7 is actually looming as a problem in that regard. There have been huge upheavals at the networks here, with Kerry Packer - owner of the 9 Network - having sacked a lot of his senior people. Who have promptly gone to Channel 7. Unfortunately, the ex-MD of 9, now MD at 7, is a thick-ear sports nut who wants to "beef up" the coverage of the WRC. Lord knows exactly what he means, but I have my fears.

I love that expression ?went close to winning?. What a lovely way of saying ?lost a commanding lead? or even ?exposed severe defensive frailties but then blew it'?

All it means, obviously, is that a Wallaby team in halfway decent form with half the missing players would have beaten the best team in the world in its own backyard.

This tour is I think our best ever chance of turning you both over in consecutive games down there ? but I?m not arrogant enough to assume it?s a certainty.

I'm sensible and objective enough to put it this way - If you don't, there is something seriously wrong.

[Havak]

I was talking pounds Finbar yes. It’s getting very difficult to know what players are on – in the early days the clubs were very open but now they play it very coy. I know our entire squad accepted a pay cut for next season because of the new cap but it doesn’t help knowing it because no one talks actual figures.

You probably know several clubs, not least Gloucester, are in trouble for flouting the caps by paying for players houses, cars, mistresses jewelry etc.

I didn't hear a peep.

Good lord – sometimes you feel like a total reflection of myself.

Nor we - or they - should.

His record is improving – only two yellows this year I believe.

But then you pointed out they were the two luckiest wins in World Cup history. So look on the bright side - maybe you'll get lucky.

Well I’m sure you know that was mainly to add spice to our exchanges?

It’s a little unfair of me perhaps – I will say that it helped the 91 side that England bizarrely changed their game plan after Campo’s criticism – the only effective mind-s**** he ever pulled off?

And I remain convinced that France never turned up in 99. Eales men won that tournament on defensive strength – which makes it even more ironic four years on that Jones et al are banging on about whether England can play expansive rugby?

Lord knows exactly what he means, but I have my fears.

It sounds worrying. I know I joke about it but it was a huge culture shock to me, used as I am to the desperately impartial BBC and scared to be bias Sky teams, to run into Channel 7. I was, as they say, Gob smacked the day after the Brisbane test when it didn’t even get a 5 second mention on the news summary. I’m not sure how helpful it is to the Aussie public that they have media that ignores bad news – even if it is only sport?

All it means, obviously, is that a Wallaby team in halfway decent form with half the missing players would have beaten the best team in the world in its own backyard.

You see again all that reads to me as is “the Wallabies lost”.

I think we do need to recognise that every team now plays beyond itself against us. Rather the down side of finally being treated seriously by the SH.

The greatest compliment we have received is the now constant tirade of anti-Anglo tirades from Kiwis on the BBC web site. This S12 Kiwi is better than that Englishman and so on. One chump last week even claimed Spencer is a class apart from Wilkinson. Put aside the fact I don’t buy that (Wilko’s defensive game is far better IMO) how realistic is it to think anyone is a class apart from that young man? Its just unfounded blinkered nonsense.

I'm sensible and objective enough to put it this way - If you don't, there is something seriously wrong.

Well you could argue that with the Wallabies – though I would again say only an idiot takes them lightly in their own backyard. But surely the ABs are favourites? All the SH fans on the various web sites are telling me that the lowest Kiwi S12 team (Chiefs?) would beat us and that the Maoris will put fifty on us. I hope that lack of respect bites them in the ass, I really do.

By the way it’s very clear someone is bank rolling Perpignan. Still there is huge pressure building on French clubs to conform to the salary caps everyone else use and I’m sure ERC ltd will make them comply in time.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I was talking pounds Finbar yes. It’s getting very difficult to know what players are on – in the early days the clubs were very open but now they play it very coy. I know our entire squad accepted a pay cut for next season because of the new cap but it doesn’t help knowing it because no one talks actual figures.

The salary figures get talked about fairly openly here. I must pay more attention.

You probably know several clubs, not least Gloucester, are in trouble for flouting the caps by paying for players houses, cars, mistresses jewelry etc.

Put a rule in place, someone will try to break - or at least bend - it. I'm not sure what the S12 situation is with a salary cap. I'm not even sure there is one, per se. I know there's a ban on the sort of extras you list. It was talked about when Lote Tuquiri was being wooed by all 3 S12 teams. Which isn't to say it doesn't go on. I'll look into the S12 salary cap situation and report back.

Good lord – sometimes you feel like a total reflection of myself.

We have a fair exchange going. I teach you things like use of the subjunctive tense, you teach me to step.

His record is improving – only two yellows this year I believe.

Jolly good. So more to come.

Well I’m sure you know that was mainly to add spice to our exchanges?

Memory is a blessed thing. Actually, I was going to save it till England won the WRC, but then realised it would be wasted on you in your drunken stupor.

It’s a little unfair of me perhaps – I will say that it helped the 91 side that England bizarrely changed their game plan after Campo’s criticism – the only effective mind-s**** he ever pulled off?

Oh well, if it makes you feel better to blame someone else for an idiotic England tactical switch. And what it says about England team discipline, not to mention the pliability of an England rugby player's mind is, well, fruit for the sideboard.

And I remain convinced that France never turned up in 99. Eales men won that tournament on defensive strength – which makes it even more ironic four years on that Jones et al are banging on about whether England can play expansive rugby?

And still they keep on coming. Must be a very quiet day in the cockpit of the nerve centre of Leicester's IT industry. France - and I'm sure Tamerlin will hate me for this - played out of their souliers in the semi and couldn't repeat the dose. I don't know that anyone - Tamerlin aside - sensibly expected them to. The big question of that year that remains to be answered satisfactorily pertains to the team the French beat in the semi.

It sounds worrying. I know I joke about it but it was a huge culture shock to me, used as I am to the desperately impartial BBC and scared to be bias Sky teams, to run into Channel 7.

The problem is you don't have access to strictly commercial television over there - by which I mean, a television equivalent to a relatively tabloid newspaper. If you did, you wouldn't be surprised.

You see again all that reads to me as is “the Wallabies lost”.

Oh well, I have nothing better to do till Mrs finbar gets home and we decide whether to eat out or eat in. Of course the Wallabies lost. Yes, England won. Which isn't the point. Given that a stronger Wallaby team struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish, England should have murded them. They didn't. Lies, damn lies and statistics again.

Its just unfounded blinkered nonsense.

I'm not sure why you read it. Well, I do know, but I'll let that one go through to the 'keeper.

Oh, and I checked out the Tigers' message board on the website. I'm yet actually to find a thread where I know what they're talking about.

But surely the ABs are favourites?

That's my view, as you know. In fact we have 50 Civ Gold riding on it.

All the SH fans on the various web sites are telling me that the lowest Kiwi S12 team (Chiefs?) would beat us and that the Maoris will put fifty on us. I hope that lack of respect bites them in the ass, I really do.

They're idiots. I'm not.

By the way it’s very clear someone is bank rolling Perpignan. Still there is huge pressure building on French clubs to conform to the salary caps everyone else use and I’m sure ERC ltd will make them comply in time.

I'm damn sure some of the other French clubs are going to demand something be done about Perpignan. Even if those figures for the new signings are only reasonably accurate, they're looking at close to $OZ 1 million. I can't imagine Toulouse wearing it for too much longer.

[Havak]

We have a fair exchange going. I teach you things like use of the subjunctive tense, you teach me to step.

Yes, but which of those is the easier task?

Jolly good. So more to come.

A Civ gold wager on him receiving one in RWC perhaps?

then realised it would be wasted on you in your drunken stupor.

If, and it’s a huge ‘if’, they do win it I might book a flight to Australia at the earliest convenience and hit the sports bars for a week solid.

And what it says about England team discipline, not to mention the pliability of an England rugby player's mind is, well, fruit for the sideboard.

And 12 years out of date, back in the height of the ‘stay amateur’ nonsense here. For a current evaluation of our players mental strength try looking back again at that game last November.

Must be a very quiet day in the cockpit of the nerve centre of Leicester's IT industry.

Just about to go into a meeting with a supplier that will last the rest of the day as it happens.

France - and I'm sure Tamerlin will hate me for this - played out of their souliers in the semi and couldn't repeat the dose

Or perhaps just the wrong year for them? They won Grand Slams in the 97 and 98 seasons but got mauled by us in 99 IIRC. Those Slam teams I would have expected to beat the Wallaby contemporaries to be honest – 97 and 98 not great years for the Aussies?

The problem is you don't have access to strictly commercial television over there - by which I mean, a television equivalent to a relatively tabloid newspaper

Sky comes close in many ways – but it’s Union coverage has to be aimed at the right target audience so has to maintain a certain measured approach.

Given that a stronger Wallaby team struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish, England should have murded them. They didn't. Lies, damn lies and statistics again.

I know what your point was. Mine was that the game was viewed much more positively here. Only a few years ago an England side that made such shocking tactical errors and went that far behind would have folded – this one didn’t. It was a great thing to see if very very nerve racking at the time.

To further add to your angst guess which players Woodward praised for turning it around?

Oh, and I checked out the Tigers' message board on the website. I'm yet actually to find a thread where I know what they're talking about.

That’s not too unusual. Why not start one – “which SH players would we like to sign”?

That's my view, as you know. In fact we have 50 Civ Gold riding on it.

Damn, you remembered.

I was actually talking about the test in June. I see the ABs as just a fallable in Australia as we could be, and I think the S12 may have made them badly over confident?

They're idiots. I'm not.

Not something I would ever accuse you of.

I can't imagine Toulouse wearing it for too much longer.

They are called “The Aristocrats” for a reason. They’ll have something to say all right.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Yes, but which of those is the easier task?

Well, yes, I'm stepping rather well, I think.

A Civ gold wager on him receiving one in RWC perhaps?

Between now and the end of the RWC and you're on.

If, and it’s a huge ‘if’, they do win it I might book a flight to Australia at the earliest convenience and hit the sports bars for a week solid.

I'll sketch a retired tighthead with a pork pie addiction and a high forehead and post it at Customs!

Just about to go into a meeting with a supplier that will last the rest of the day as it happens.

A supplier? Supplying to an IT crowd? Supplying what? I or T?

Or perhaps just the wrong year for them? They won Grand Slams in the 97 and 98 seasons but got mauled by us in 99 IIRC. Those Slam teams I would have expected to beat the Wallaby contemporaries to be honest – 97 and 98 not great years for the Aussies?

As I recall, we were talking about the WRC final, not other French teams in other years. If only you spent as much time working on the subjunctive tense as you do your step!

Sky comes close in many ways – but it’s Union coverage has to be aimed at the right target audience so has to maintain a certain measured approach.

Yes, and that's the difference. A truly commercial network doesn't. Particularly if the product - in this country, in this case, rugby - isn't a massive priority. While Channel 7 will pump up the WRC, they neglected S12 appallingly. Replays were pushed later and later into the night, until they eventually scrapped them altogether.

I know what your point was. Mine was that the game was viewed much more positively here. Only a few years ago an England side that made such shocking tactical errors and went that far behind would have folded – this one didn’t. It was a great thing to see if very very nerve racking at the time.

Mmmmm. Some would wonder why they got into the position in the first place.

To further add to your angst guess which players Woodward praised for turning it around?

No thanks. I suspect I know. I had a pleasant dinner, I'd rather keep it down.

That’s not too unusual. Why not start one – “which SH players would we like to sign”?

Good thought. I might give it a burl.

I was actually talking about the test in June. I see the ABs as just a fallable in Australia as we could be, and I think the S12 may have made them badly over confident?

I'm not sure what to make of the June Tests. England aren't going to fielding full-strength sides, we're certainly not. I'm not sure about the ABs. I really don't know what the matches will prove in terms of the WRC.

They are called “The Aristocrats” for a reason. They’ll have something to say all right.

I expect it explains Tamerlin's absence. Penning a tome on the matter to the appropriate to les autorités.