Rugby - Advantage!

[Havak]

What was his name?

Lewis Moody

So who or what gave Bath the clout to upset the promotion/relegation?

Nothing more (or less) than old friends in the old boys club (RFU) I suspect.

Maybe you just need some players who can catch.

Tell me about it. Leon Lloyd take a bow.

Arise, Sir Havak.

Heck no – my ancestors would have been the poor Billmen going up against the Knights with nothing more than a crop cutting tool. Still one or two must have survived a while at least.

Oh well, one year in the limelight is better than nothing.

One year in the limelight. Now come Fifty of them telling us all about the one year.

They just have to put him under some pressure. He's been operating in an acre of space with a ton of time.

I thought there were good quality flankers down south???

It's more than just the place names, it's the other lovely bits they attach to them

Boirgoin Sporting Club
Perpignan Harlequins Sporting Union
Narbonne Racing club
Brive Althetic club.
And...somewhere else.

It’s the language Finbar, the actual names are just as bland when translated.

Personally I prefer London Wasps, Harlequins, Leicester Tigers, Northampton Saints, Exiles etc. And you tell me where Saracens play from the name alone?? Plus most of the teams have had these names since their inception (Some are made up like Sale Sharks).

Plus our stadiums can be just as obscure – Franklins Gardens, The Stoop, Adams Park and of course Welford Road (more than just a street – a shrine).

Then there’s Ireland – Garyowen and Donnybrook…

Now then who are we supporting in the final? It needs balance in the thread so I’ll have to go for USAP.

*Havak runs for cover*

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Lewis Moody

Oh yes. Good player. Looked taller than Smith. Definitely taller than Waugh.

Heck no – my ancestors would have been the poor Billmen going up against the Knights with nothing more than a crop cutting tool.

Yeah yeah, picking the lock on Guinevere's chastity belt, more likely.

Still one or two must have survived a while at least.

In the light of the immediately above, you've probably got royal corpuscles burrowing through your veins.

I thought there were good quality flankers down south???

You'd've thought that, but he's got away with murder. To be fair, the Blues' pack has been terrific, and when the team is on song, they're very very impressive. Quite different to the Crusaders in their dominant year last year - they tended to wear teams down - where the Blues can be a real powerhouse. Carlos has been playing deep, too, which has let him do what he's done. If he can be controlled, though - to whatever extent - it will hurt them, apart from his control of the backs, because he's literally their only kicker.

It’s the language Finbar, the actual names are just as bland when translated.

Of course it's the language. As I said, it's poetry.

Personally I prefer London Wasps, Harlequins, Leicester Tigers, Northampton Saints, Exiles etc. And you tell me where Saracens play from the name alone?? Plus most of the teams have had these names since their inception (Some are made up like Sale Sharks).

Sorry. Give me the French!

Plus our stadiums can be just as obscure – Franklins Gardens, The Stoop, Adams Park and of course Welford Road

Mmmm. Well, we've got Ballymore in Brisbane, not that it's entirely original anyway. And they're moving rugby away from the ground to the rebuilt Lang Park! In Sydney, of course, we have ... sigh ... Aussie Stadium (sponsored by Aussie Home Loans, a hom mortgage outfit) and Telstra Stadium ...

(more than just a street – a shrine).

You must have been a big hit in Sunday School.

SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER: Now, young Havak, who was crucified on Good Friday?

HAVAK: Please, Miss, J**** was, Miss, that opponent kept hitting his head against J****'s boot.

Now then who are we supporting in the final? It needs balance in the thread so I’ll have to go for USAP.

With Manny Edmonds lining up for Perpignan, I have a huge conflict of interest.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
As this morning's rugby media pointed out, Larkham's absence might be - dare I say it? - a minor blessing in disguise.

Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

They're trying desperately to be optimistic. The reality is that the Waratahs would have been hammered. Which isn't to say that the Brumbies won't be, but, of the Oz S12 teams, the Brumbies would have the most chance of beating the Blues.

[Havak]

Oh yes. Good player. Looked taller than Smith. Definitely taller than Waugh.

He’s a very good players yes. Unfortunately he seems to have recurrent shoulder problems – I hope he throws them. He is reminiscent of a young Martin Corry and, dare I say it, a young Josh Kronfeld – and neither of those are bad things. He has learnt a lot playing with both at Tigers.

Yeah yeah, picking the lock on Guinevere's chastity belt, more likely.

Dreaming about it probably. We’ve always had the ‘optimisitic beyond all reason’ gene.

In the light of the immediately above, you've probably got royal corpuscles burrowing through your veins.

If I have they pre-date the Norman invasion (my surname is pure Saxon).

You'd've thought that, but he's got away with murder

Yes I guess most competent Flys can look good with time and space. But if he is facing a team with Smith and Finny in it he shouldn’t really get that now should he? Then again they must have played already – where and who won?

Sorry. Give me the French!

Sacre bleu!

we have ... sigh ... Aussie Stadium (sponsored by Aussie Home Loans, a hom mortgage outfit) and Telstra Stadium ...

Yes I share your distaste for sponsored stadiums. Sadly it is creeping in here with stands now generally sponsored if possible – the members stand at Tigers has been the NEXT stand for several years now and the new stand (only about ten years old) is the Alliance and Leicester (a local bank). Sheesh.

You must have been a big hit in Sunday School.

In more ways than one.

And I swear you has a camera tracking me in my youth!

With Manny Edmonds lining up for Perpignan, I have a huge conflict of interest.

And with Luger and Robertson heading that way it could be Tamerlin is left on his own?

Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

I see that as Finbar told us he would Bob has indeed walked away this week.

So there was another new signing for us yesterday – Darren Morris who played tight head in all three tests for the Lions in 2001. He’s a great player when fit – can play either side of the coal face, tops nineteen stone and yet is hugely athletic. However he walked from Swansea two months ago after a bust up (I think that was with Connelly shortly before he too got booted? Might be wrong) and from what I hear he is nowhere near fit right now. A big pre-season is needed from the boy – but if anyone can knock him into shape it’s our forwards coach Wellsy.

And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!!

Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

[Havak]

From a BBC report on the mass exodus from Bristol:

Former All Blacks centre Daryl Gibson is also expected to leave, with Leicester a possible destination.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Sacre bleu!

Fichtre !

Yes I share your distaste for sponsored stadiums. Sadly it is creeping in here with stands now generally sponsored if possible – the members stand at Tigers has been the NEXT stand for several years now and the new stand (only about ten years old) is the Alliance and Leicester (a local bank). Sheesh.

I fear that this is only a matter of time before this kind of heresies appear in France...

And with Luger and Robertson heading that way it could be Tamerlin is left on his own?

This THE test, Finbar, are you a real supporter of the Stade Toulousain?

And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!!

Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

The Tigers are in turmoil, it seems you are about to live another black year Havack...

Are there young talents emerging from the club "nursery", I would be glad to hear it is the case as this is what has allowed the Stade Toulousain to recover and get out rather quickly of a tricky situation very similar to your own.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
He has learnt a lot playing with both at Tigers.

Yes, learning how to lose is great character-building stuff.

Dreaming about it probably. We’ve always had the ‘optimisitic beyond all reason’ gene.

Tigers supporters since Saxon times then?

Yes I guess most competent Flys can look good with time and space. But if he is facing a team with Smith and Finny in it he shouldn’t really get that now should he? Then again they must have played already – where and who won?

Blues 41 -d- Brumbies 15 in Auckland back in March. Smith played, Finegan didn't. He's only been back two weeks. I remember the match well. Brumbies' #8 got himself sin-binned and the Blues stacked on double-digit points while he was off. Played in appalling wet conditions, except no one told the flying Fijian winger Caucau, who scored two tries featuring astonishing ball-handling and stepping that belied the conditions.

This time, though, the Brumbies have Finegan and the Blues don't have Caucau.

I see that as Finbar told us he would Bob has indeed walked away this week.

And, typically for NSW rugby, the search for the new coach is already mired in politics and infighting. The unspeakable Alan Jones, former Wallaby coach, now ultra right-wing talkback radio host and interferer in just about everything, has taken a set against both Eddie Jones and Bob Dwyer. He (A. Jones) is moving heaven and earth to make sure E. Jones' and Dwyer's preferred choice doesn't get the gig.

How can a talkback radio host have that much influence? He has, sadly, a massive, massive following in Sydney. He has the ear of the State Premier. When he took a set against the Police Commissioner, he used his radio show to villify the man to the extent that the Premier sacked him. So too the Police Minister. And the Premier sent the new Police Minister to meet A. Jones to get his approval. That's the influence he has. He's now applying the same pressure to the people at NSW rugby HQ. Despicable slug. The man who, while Wallaby coach, singlehandedly drove the Ella Brothers into early retirement.

However he walked from Swansea two months ago after a bust up (I think that was with Connelly shortly before he too got booted? Might be wrong)

I thought "Knuckles" went at the end of last season.

And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!!

If I were you, I'd check out the price of a Gloucester membership. Or failing that, Bath.

Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

Fingers crossed for a firestorm.

[Havak]

Were you swearing there Tamerlin?

The Tigers are in turmoil, it seems you are about to live another black year Havack...

The first sixty minutes last night certainly suggested this is true – more on that later…

Are there young talents emerging from the club "nursery", I would be glad to hear it is the case as this is what has allowed the Stade Toulousain to recover and get out rather quickly of a tricky situation very similar to your own.

Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on. Herbert would have been ideal – Gibson would be great too.

Yes, learning how to lose is great character-building stuff.

Then my character is truly fifty stories high by now.

Tigers supporters since Saxon times then?

But of course.

This time, though, the Brumbies have Finegan and the Blues don't have Caucau.

This should make things nice and interesting.

How can a talkback radio host have that much influence?

I really don’t know. It can’t be healthy for the Democratic process can it? This is the guy who preceded Bob at the Wallabies helm – some of your darker days in modern times – I do recall you mentioning him before.

But here’s the thing – nothing lasts forever. His popularity will slip, he’ll lose the ear of the important and he’ll end up another sad ranting old man.

I thought "Knuckles" went at the end of last season.

You may be right – this season has passed in a blur for me.

If I were you, I'd check out the price of a Gloucester membership. Or failing that, Bath.

Just as soon as you do the same at Tigers.

I’ll let you off for being Australian – were you from the six nations and suggesting club jumping I’d be citing you for heresy.

Fingers crossed for a firestorm.

It’s actually rather sad in a way. By declaring two seasons ago he would now be a fly half he killed his career early and has certainly not helped Tigers (the lad he forced out by doing this, Andy Goode, got a bucket load of points for Sarries last night as they destroyed Leeds). The appointment of Pez has shown the club is over it’s Healey experiment at ten – the wingers are not a problem for us so he can’t go there and we now have one of the best young scrummies in England (Harry Ellis) so he can’t revert to there either. I can honestly see him leaving over the summer. Don’t be sad Finbar.

Okay the first game of the two handed wildcard semi final was last night at the stoop.
Another away game another loss. Quins 26 – Tigers 23. Two tries a piece and they were lucky that they have the reliable irish kicking machine Paul Burke playing for them.

I had to listen to it on the radio (TV showed the Sarries game). Picture me getting absolutely furious as all the old problems this season crashed us to trail 23-6 at 60 minutes. Fragile defence and centres not catching ball all over the shop. A Fly half throwing wild passes as if he had Aussie centres outside him. Heart stopping infuriating stuff. And poor Josh was captain for the night too. At 60 mins a certain lock jaw comes on and the game alters in pattern. We hold the ball more and build patiently, grinding the opposing pack down. Within five minutes we’ve sucked the extra man into a defending maul and the ball pops out to Murphy who weaves his way past the lock now in the defensive pattern for a brilliant solo score of over 50 metres.

We keep the pressure on and the forwards crash over again near the death. Only a drop goal from Burke gave Quins the lead into the second leg.

I’m both pleased and annoyed. Pleased the team can be resilient and recover on the pitch. Angry that they rely so heavily on one man to run the show on the field. Josh is a great and experienced player – he knew what needed doing so the question is – why didn’t he get a grip on it earlier?

The second leg is on Sunday afternoon - last season beating Quins at home by over a three point margin would have been a no brainer. This season who knows?

In Sarries huge 57-21 Destruction of Leeds there was a swan song try for Horan by the way. Two more games left for the legend (unless Leeds perform miracles in the return leg).

Also the gate at both these games was less than 3000. Like Tigers both clubs tried to charge season ticket holders for these extra games. It will be interesting to see the gate on Sunday – I’m betting we get 5000 or so (our average gate this season has been 16800). It won’t help the greedy club that the game is live on BBC2.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I really don’t know. It can’t be healthy for the Democratic process can it? This is the guy who preceded Bob at the Wallabies helm – some of your darker days in modern times – I do recall you mentioning him before.

He did have Wallaby success - the Grand Slam tour - but his methods soon wore thin. His basic approach was to divide and conquer the team - play favourites within the team, denigrate others. It gave him a sort of control. But with its obvious downsides. He's never forgiven the ARU for sacking him.

But here’s the thing – nothing lasts forever. His popularity will slip, he’ll lose the ear of the important and he’ll end up another sad ranting old man.

Sadly, that's unlikely. He speaks to the Great Ignorant Unwashed, there are many of them, and they breed like rabbits.

It’s actually rather sad in a way.

No it's not.

Don’t be sad Finbar.

Should he happen to die rather suddenly, please make a note of the cemetery. Oh, and the grave number. I shall turn up with dancing shoes.

I had to listen to it on the radio (TV showed the Sarries game). Picture me getting absolutely furious

No thanks, not before I've had my dinner. My stomach is weak when empty. Oh, and no wonder she won't marry you.

At 60 mins a certain lock jaw comes on and the game alters in pattern.

Playing the first 60 minutes without him? A luxury I wouldn't have thought you could afford.

Angry that they rely so heavily on one man to run the show on the field. Josh is a great and experienced player – he knew what needed doing so the question is – why didn’t he get a grip on it earlier?

Well, yes. And why wasn't Lantern Jaw on earlier?

In Sarries huge 57-21 Destruction of Leeds there was a swan song try for Horan by the way. Two more games left for the legend (unless Leeds perform miracles in the return leg).

I'm amazed he lasted so long.

Also the gate at both these games was less than 3000. Like Tigers both clubs tried to charge season ticket holders for these extra games. It will be interesting to see the gate on Sunday – I’m betting we get 5000 or so (our average gate this season has been 16800). It won’t help the greedy club that the game is live on BBC2.

Serves the greedy bastards right!

[Havak]

He's never forgiven the ARU for sacking him.

Well that can stick in a man’s craw – but one has to move on eventually.

Sadly, that's unlikely. He speaks to the Great Ignorant Unwashed, there are many of them, and they breed like rabbits.

A sad truth. Like Sun readers here.

Should he happen to die rather suddenly, please make a note of the cemetery. Oh, and the grave number. I shall turn up with dancing shoes.

He surely made a huge impression on you did the boy.

The thing is some of the views he expressed are very close to some you yourself have aired here about your nation and compatriots. Is it because he is an outsider saying it?

Oh, and no wonder she won't marry you.

I only get angry about sport. And idiots. And not being able to get served at the bar. Apart from that I’m placid and quite gentle.

Playing the first 60 minutes without him? A luxury I wouldn't have thought you could afford.

Hence the anger. Five first team players shone the bench at the start. The tight head he fielded hadn’t started a game all season and one of the locks is off to France after the weekend. It was a scratch team and smacked of a holding action with a view to increasing the gate Sunday. It nearly back fired totally.

Well, yes. And why wasn't Lantern Jaw on earlier?

I’d like to ask Deano that myself.

I'm amazed he lasted so long.

The secret has been he has hardly played up here. Got injured early on and it recurred. Last season was almost a total write off for him with a leg injury – this season he has been in and out with niggles. Its time for him to bow out – but you can still see the class he has been.

Serves the greedy bastards right!

Well said.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Were you swearing there Tamerlin?

Never!

Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on.

Like... Austin Healey?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Well that can stick in a man’s craw – but one has to move on eventually.

I know I've told the story before but it bears retelling. A. Jones is the man who, when arrested for soliciting in a men's toilet in London, called on friends in very high places to have the whole matter squashed. Bastard.

He surely made a huge impression on you did the boy.

As you say below, no time for idiots.

The thing is some of the views he expressed are very close to some you yourself have aired here about your nation and compatriots. Is it because he is an outsider saying it?

He struck it lucky with a couple of clichés. Give a thousand Austin Healys a thousand typewriters and they will eventually sh*t in their hands and throw it at you.

I only get angry about sport. And idiots. And not being able to get served at the bar. Apart from that I’m placid and quite gentle.

The Armchair Sportsman's trifecta!

Hence the anger. Five first team players shone the bench at the start. The tight head he fielded hadn’t started a game all season and one of the locks is off to France after the weekend. It was a scratch team and smacked of a holding action with a view to increasing the gate Sunday. It nearly back fired totally.

I'm beginning to think your coach has delusions born out of arrogance.

The secret has been he has hardly played up here. Got injured early on and it recurred. Last season was almost a total write off for him with a leg injury – this season he has been in and out with niggles. Its time for him to bow out – but you can still see the class he has been.

Yes, and regardless of injury, he stuck it out longer than his old sidekick. A rare talent is - or was - Timmy. And he came back from one of the worst knee injuries you could imagine. Yet another one of Bob's discoveries.

[Havak]

Like... Austin Healey?

Tut Tut Tamerlin – trying to set Finbar off on a rant again?

A. Jones is the man who, when arrested for soliciting in a men's toilet in London, called on friends in very high places to have the whole matter squashed

I’d totally forgotten this!!!

He struck it lucky with a couple of clichés

It’s fair enough. He does come across as arrogant in person even. He is very self assured. His saving grace was he is a very talented player. But then he suddenly convinced himself he could be Wilko and ruined his career. If he plays again I hope he has the sense to go back to scrummy.

Trifecta’s now Finbar? An expression much loved of the Morning Herald I recall – who like Aussie sporting successes to come in threes and will often ignore failures totally so as not to ruin the trifecta ambience.

I'm beginning to think your coach has delusions born out of arrogance.

he is a hell of a nice guy, was a great player and has had huge success as a coach. But he’s never been tested like this season. So I’m open minded. I don’t think it’s arrogance (it simply does not match his personality – and yes I have talked to him on several occasions). But I think he has allowed positional errors this season. Not least Austin returning from injury at Fly.

What you want to do is drop by our club messageboard. There’s a core of Ostriches there who will pounce on you and try to rip you to shreds for even vaguely criticising Dean. Apparently he and the coaches are beyond all criticism because they have won stuff before. The poor fools would be easy meat for you.

The injury that sidelined Tim up here was knee again. Little was his sidekick? He wasted his time up here too – they both did in fact. Little joined Glaws and then left before Melville arrived and turned them into a Championship team. He went to Bristol just as their owner started throwing his rattle out the pram about how much cash he was losing. I believe he is back home now and fully retired?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on. Herbert would have been ideal – Gibson would be great too.

The new guard could well be the salvation of the Tigers. The zenith and then the departure of an exceptional generation (like the Stade Toulousain from 1996-2001) is a very difficult thing to manage. The coaches have some very difficult and heart breaking decisions to take and enforce. In order to succesfully manage the transition the coaches must gradually evince the players that have won prestigious titles and must give new players their chance, young players who have everything to prove and must withstand a considerable pressure. But the new players must be managed on the field by older players who have an invaluable knowledge that can only acquired through experience. This is more of an alchemy than anything else... and a damn difficult one to master.

The victory of the Stade Toulousain in the 2000/2001 French Championship (players like Frédéric Michalack, Clément Poitrenaud, Jean Bouilhou, David Gérard, Nicolas Jeanjean have literally "hatched" during the final against the Association Sportive Montferrandaise) is the perfect example of what can be achieved. Though the 2001/2002 season has proved the alchemy was not yet totally accomplished... and there are still some blunders this year (the game against the Sporting Union Agenais at the Stade Armandie and the first game of the Play-Off against the Biarritz Olympique at the Stade d'Aguiléra). I must admit we are a difficult crowd as we does not expect our beloved team to lose whatever the opponent, be it away or at home....

IMO, the fact that Deano has played with some of the players he must push out of the A team does not help...