Where do you stand politically?

[NeOmega]

Recently Libertarians have been characterized as far leftists for their anti-war views.... extreme anti-war views, views like who cares if Iraq has WMD's, nunofourbizness.

This thread is a classical example of the philososphy of deconstructionism; a French philosophy developed in the 1970's that eventually there would be so much information that truth would become irrelevant.

[Drogue]

Well... Libertarians fall into Anarcho-Capitalists, Anarchist Socialists and Libertarians. The first wants liberty and free market, the second wants liberty without property controls, without the free market, and the third just wants liberty and freedom.

You can't really classify anything completely accurately, as everyone's personal ideas differ, but that is how I see the different forms of Libertarianism.

[Ben Kenobi]

Economic Left/Right: 1.00
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -0.82

From the poll.

That's what makes me a moderate. Conservative on most social issues, liberal on capital punishment, and military spending.

Most in Canada would call me a far-right, whereas in the US I become a moderate right.

[Drogue]

IIRC Political Compass if UK based, and so is closer to Canada politically than to the US. It isn't always correct though, so you could be further right. But then, it's not about morals really, but about Authority and Economics. It obviously has some in there, but the morality issue is not in there so much IMHO.

[Ben Kenobi]

I try emphasise the morality portion to get a better result, but the anti-war stance, pro-immigrant sides me with the left.

[Berzerker]

NeOmega -

Recently Libertarians have been characterized as far leftists for their anti-war views.... extreme anti-war views, views like who cares if Iraq has WMD's, nunofourbizness.

I don't care if Iraq got WMD, I believe more WMD (and the willingness to use them) deters war. "MAD" is a valid idea, wars usually occur when one power thinks it can succeed and not suffer much. But the Founding Fathers would not have cared either and they would have minded their own business - and they were right wing.

Imran -

Because he was a reactionary moralist.

Are you? There are plenty of leftists who are reactionary moralists.

Fascism, as a whole, is simply a reaction to Communism. It wishes to go back to the good old days and hates the enlightenment and liberalism (social liberalism: ie, civil liberties).

Seems to me both fascism and communism are just newer versions of monarchies and communalism. I don't see them as new ideologies, some of the early Christians practiced a brand of socialism - communal goods - in a time of monarchies. Even the Pilgrims tried socialism when they came to the new world and they almost starved. They went to private property and discovered people work harder when they get to make their own decisions and keep the fruits of their labor.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of dictators who believe in capitalism (most US backed ones) and there are those that believe in communism (Lenin, Castro). There are those that believe heavily in forcing morality (Fascists) and those that don't care.

Capitalism still involves economics, but as long as the dictator presumes to have the authority to decide which economic system will be enforced, that's still totalitarianism.

Conservatives relish that more people are conservative. They don't think they are centrists at all.

They don't like being shown just how close they are to liberals either. There's a problem with conservatism as I've pointed out, they preach the Constitution, freedom and limited government, but they practice something different when they get into office. Liberals start a program and conservatives end up supporting it, this has happened time and time again.

Btw, you think Jerry Falwell (Mr. far-right moralist) is on the left??!

I'd say his economics are just right of center and his "morality" is leftist. Liberals believe in imposing their morality on others just as he does, so why should they be on opposite sides? The fact they don't agree all the time on what is moral is irrelevant, the fact they believe government exists to impose their morality on the rest of us does matter - that's why they are leftist.

Do you have any idea what 'true' communism is?! It is basically a communal society. Marx's vision is that when everyone cares for each other, the state withers away. It is even more anti-state than Anarchism.

So why does an anti-state ideology appear right next to command control communism on your list? Yes, Imran, I'm aware that Marx argued socialism would lead to a withering away of the state, but we all know what it really did - promoted a totalitarian system in the name of a classless society.

Because we all do.

I don't. Morality and government is an oxy-moron because one cannot legislate morality in a system funded by legalised theft.

The people who are considered 'far-right' in America are Jerry Falwell, William Bennett, Pat Robertson, etc. Libertarians aren't called 'far-right', and never have been.

Libertarians are constantly called far right by liberals and anarchists by conservatives (meaning even further to the right than conservatives). According to conservative propaganda, liberals want more government, conservatives want constitutional government, and anarchists want no government. If liberals are left and conservatives are right, how can anarchists be left when they want even less government than conservatives?

Moral rightism is the belief that people should behave in a moral fashion. This can take the form of forcing people to do so (Church states) or simply shaming them into conforming (Falwell).

And liberals don't believe in forcing people to behave morally? Did you read Agathon's thread on Augusta (The Masters)? Both liberals and conservatives believe in legislating their morality. For example, while many conservatives and libertarians oppose anti-discrimination laws in hiring practices because such laws conflict with private property rights, liberals say these hiring practices are immoral and need to be outlawed. On the other hand, many conservatives want drugs outlawed in the name of morality even though these laws conflict with private property rights while many liberals (and all libertarians) oppose those laws. So, only the libertarians are being consistent... The use of shame is a libertarian approach to combatting immoral behavior, conservatives use shame when they lack the support to have the behavior outlawed. But liberals use shame too, you're in college so you should know what can happen to students who express politically incorrect views.

Moral leftism is the belief that everyone's morality is the same and therefore we shouldn't try to impart our morality on others and allow people to do what they please.

If everyone's morality is the same, how can we impart our morality on others who already share the same morality? Liberals use government to impose their morality on others, they just don't want others doing the same to them, and conservatives are no different...

[NeOmega]

Today REpublicans are all happy about giving the government more police powers, but in 6 years when a Democrat is in office, they will be doing a lot of whining about the Democrats abusing the government powers gained during Republican rule. Niether side wants less government except when their opposition is in power.

[Zero]

I have no political views, I just care about my gains.

For example, I'll worry about abortion issues when I need one.

When voting, I like the party that is the most evil.

[Ramo]

Berzerker, the left/right axis usually isn't concerned directly with the level of state authority. I would say that I belong on the left along with the commies and that you belong on the right along with the fascists.

BTW, did you intentionally put Madison further right on your axis than me? Seeing as how he supported state legitimization of human slavery, I find that pretty odd...

As for "anarcho-capitalists," I'd say the term is a contradiction. Capitalists believe in considerable private authority (corporations, etc.), but anarchism rejects authority.

[Ambro2000]

according to this site http://www.politicalcompass.org/ My political standing is like this !





Economic Left/Right: -6.62
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -6.77

It's me and Gandhi!

i voted a stunning 3 on this boards

[Berzerker]

Ramo -

Berzerker, the left/right axis usually isn't concerned directly with the level of state authority.

Then what?

I would say that I belong on the left along with the commies and that you belong on the right along with the fascists.

And I say you belong on the right with those who want the state minimized and the fascists belong on the left with the commies and those who want more government control over people. This left-right spectrum that seeks to place autocrats at both ends is illogical.

BTW, did you intentionally put Madison further right on your axis than me? Seeing as how he supported state legitimization of human slavery, I find that pretty odd...

Slavery was imposed upon the colonies by England and once it was established, the Constitution and AoC would not have been ratified without it. So I'm referring to the principles embodied by the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Also, I'm not sure where to put your brand of anarchism on the right because I'm not sure how you'd go about creating your system, but as long as you don't advocate the use of force or coercion to compel business owners to hand over their investments to the employees, then you aren't on the left. Maybe you belong at the right end along with anarcho-capitalists come to think of it.

As for "anarcho-capitalists," I'd say the term is a contradiction. Capitalists believe in considerable private authority (corporations, etc.), but anarchism rejects authority.

Would you believe in considerable private authority if someone tried to steal your home? What makes you more worthy of using private authority to protect your property than people who own corporations? Anarchism doesn't reject authority, it rejects the imposition of authority on others to deny them their freedom, true? If we lived in an anarchist system reflecting your beliefs - worker owned businesses - and some group came along to take away those businesses, wouldn't the workers have the authority to defend their property?

[Frozzy]

8

[Imran Siddiqui]

There are plenty of leftists who are reactionary moralists.

Aru? Like WHO?!

Seems to me both fascism and communism are just newer versions of monarchies and communalism

Communalism being on the left and monarchism being on the right?

I'd say his economics are just right of center and his "morality" is leftist.

You may be the only person in the world to call Falwell's moral to be left of center!!

as long as the dictator presumes to have the authority to decide which economic system will be enforced, that's still totalitarianism.

No ****, but a totalitarian can decide to have capitalism or communism. He can be a right-winged guy like Pinochet or a left-winged guy like Stalin.

I don't.

Well whoop-de-****ing-do! When everyone else (including fellow Libertarians) says Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet is on the right and you say he is a leftist, you are the one who is WRONG!

The left-right spectrum has nothing to do with state power. It original comes from the French Assembly when the Monarchists (you know, big state guys) sat on the RIGHT (totally blowing your insane idea that totalitarianism is always on the left) and the Communists and Liberals sat on the LEFT.

Liberals use government to impose their morality on others, they just don't want others doing the same to them, and conservatives are no different...

And Libetarians use lack of government to impose their morality on others... so what?

[NeOmega]

And Libetarians use lack of government to impose their morality on others... so what?

Please explain how lack of government could impose anything.

[Drogue]

It could impose their morals that they think people should decide for themselves, that they think thigns should be legal, and that they believe in Libertarianism. They are enforcing Libertarianism on others. A bit shakey yes, but it is a somewhat point IMHO.