Bush Asks for Action on HIV/AIDS

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Berzerker


It's a meaningless "start" if people in Africa don't incorporate safegaurds like protected sex and abstinance. But wearing condoms is viewed as unmanly and promiscuity is the driving force behind the AIDS problem. And yes, I want to do nothing at all, I want Africans to be responsible. That's the only way to stem the AIDS problem. Throwing money around won't help because it won't make anyone there more responsible.

It is either $15 Billion or nothing.

[Berzerker]

Orange, education won't help either if the people have customs and practices that spread AIDS. That's the problem in Africa. People have been educating Africans for centuries about the hazards of promiscuity and nearly 2 decades wrt AIDS, yet promiscuity and unprotected sex are still driving AIDS.

[Berzerker]

Fez -

It is either $15 Billion or nothing.

It's nothing either way, the 15 billion will go into the pockets of dictators, legislatures, and health care workers. What little education will be passed along will be ignored just as it has in the past. The people there who are open to learning about prevention have already been taught and those who aren't open to learning won't listen because prevention conflicts with deeply embedded customs.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by skywalker
I agree with Floyd, for some slightly different reasons. NO ONE was "afflicted" with AIDS - they got it because they did things even with the knowledge that they could easily recieve a lethal disease because of it, even with the knowledge that they had a SIGNIFICANT CHANCE of recieving a lethal disease because of it. The fact that they have AIDS is SOLELY their responsibility.

This is blatantly not true for most of the third-world AIDS cases, especially in Africa. Remember, they have governments who actually state they don't believe the disease is sexually transmitted. There is an appalling lack of education about AIDS in the world, and for a long time the Chinese government didn't acknowledge its existence. Now it looks like over 40 million Chinese will be HIV+ within the next 5-10 years.

[Ben Kenobi]

You can say healthcare is part of the right to life, but you're missing the point in that one right can't conflict with another. That is, the right to life can't be at the expense of my property rights.

Actually, these rights can conflict. Right to life should trump property rights.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Remember, they have governments who actually state they don't believe the disease is sexually transmitted. There is an appalling lack of education about AIDS in the world, and for a long time the Chinese government didn't acknowledge its existence. Now it looks like over 40 million Chinese will be HIV+ within the next 5-10 years."

Whose fault is this? What will be the point of giving them condoms if their own government is telling them aids is not an STD.

[David Floyd]

Boris,

This is blatantly not true for most of the third-world AIDS cases, especially in Africa.

So, wait a second. You're saying that sexually transmitted AIDs couldn't be drastically reduced by not having casual sex with multiple partners? Because that's all I'm saying. Any other conclusion makes no sense. I'm not saying anything about non-sexually transmitted AIDs, just AIDs that gets transmitted through sex.

Remember, they have governments who actually state they don't believe the disease is sexually transmitted.

Yes, well, people get the governments they deserve. People who are ignorant about the consequences of casual sex with multiple partners usually end up with ignorant governments.

There is an appalling lack of education about AIDS in the world, and for a long time the Chinese government didn't acknowledge its existence. Now it looks like over 40 million Chinese will be HIV+ within the next 5-10 years.

None of this is my problem.

[David Floyd]

obiwan,

Actually, these rights can conflict. Right to life should trump property rights.

So you're telling me that if you are about to die, I should be forced to donate all of my life savings to buy you a kidney?

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"Remember, they have governments who actually state they don't believe the disease is sexually transmitted. There is an appalling lack of education about AIDS in the world, and for a long time the Chinese government didn't acknowledge its existence. Now it looks like over 40 million Chinese will be HIV+ within the next 5-10 years."

Whose fault is this? What will be the point of giving them condoms if their own government is telling them aids is not an STD.

'Cause condoms are cheaper and easier to get and distribute than medicines. The point is to provide as much aid as possible/feasible with the hope that most of it will get to who it's intended for. Congress knows that money will disappear from the coffers on account of corruption, but there isn't the political drive to do something more definitive about that.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
So, wait a second. You're saying that sexually transmitted AIDs couldn't be drastically reduced by not having casual sex with multiple partners? Because that's all I'm saying. Any other conclusion makes no sense. I'm not saying anything about non-sexually transmitted AIDs, just AIDs that gets transmitted through sex.

Uhh, no, where did I say anything like that? I was refuting skywalker's assertion that everyone who had AIDS has no excuse because they "knew the risks." In places where education is virtually nil, no, they don't know the risks, or worse, they have misinformation about it.

Nowhere did I discuss anything mentioned above.

Yes, well, people get the governments they deserve. People who are ignorant about the consequences of casual sex with multiple partners usually end up with ignorant governments.

Study some history of Africa, particularly the relation of the current quality of governments to the history of European colonialism. The people have the governments that Europeans thought they deserved, and that wealthy Western countries like the U.S. have a vested interest in keeping in power to suit economic aims. Tell me, does Mugabe rule by the will of his people?

None of this is my problem.

I'm aware of your mentality here, and I dismiss it. I don't think your unwillingness to pay taxes is adequate grounds for not trying to head off a humanitarian catastrophe. Welcome to the world of representative democracy.

[monolith94]

"None of this is my problem."
Of course it isn't. Fortunately for us, you aren't the ruler of our nation.
Rulers are expected to show empathy.

[Sava]

More political grandstanding.

to Mr. Bush:
If you really gave a rat's ass about AIDS in Africa, then you'd support the generic drug program that would allow Africa to distribute drugs that help fight the AIDS and HIV viruses. But instead, you want to protect pharamaceutical corporations so that they can profit. You go on TV and pretend like we are helping them. Sure, we'll save 2 million people. WHILE 30 MILLION MORE DIE. You are pathetic.

Here's a suggestion for social conservatives. Instead of trying to prostelesize (sp?) and trying to force people to conform to your morality standards, how about accept the reality that some people just want to have sex and find a solution that doesn't involve your holier than thou approach to life.

[Kuciwalker]

Sava - why should we spend huge amounts of money on extremely expensive, toxic drugs that can barely hold back a nearly (maybe completely? I think so) 100% fatal disease when we can use it to keep more people from getting the disease. The only way to solve the problem is prevention.

Not that I think we should even send money that far, but the illogic of your post jarred me.

[Sava]

If the drugs don't work, then why not let the African and other agencies produce their own generic versions? You seem to be talking about something else.

[monkspider]

Wow, do you really think this is a bad idea Dave? That's not cool man.