Troll a sincere prolifer.

[Ben Kenobi]

I get things thrown at me like oh mother....you don't know what your talking about.

Think about how you were at 17. Can you still remember what it feels like?

The reality of being a parent is not hitting home with her.

Not sure what I would do about this.

may get the vanacular wrong on this but........not out "rolling with your boys".

I'm hardly up with the latest vernacular myself. That is an additional problem, that the man refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.

I know that sounds racist but when you have a 6 ft. blonde hair blue eyed barbie doll who is beautiful and along comes this thug with gold teeth.

Don't worry about the racist bit, I'm not offended.
I see your point. How long was she seeing this thug?

I get angry at this because she was a straight A student who wanted to be a lawyer. Now she has bought into that mentality that oh well.....there's all these programs out there for me so why should I have to do anything.

Been there myself when I got clinically depressed for 4 months. You get so that you start to feel like nothing will ever be right again. I guess she needs some time to see just how hard it is out in the real world in order to get her motivation back. It sounds like she is smart, but not wise.

Would you like ketchup with those fries?

You take what you can find.

[Tiamat]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by obiwan18

Think about how you were at 17. Can you still remember what it feels like?

Yes I very much can. The cycle comes full circle. I was in college and got pregnant at 19. I know what it is like to be that young and have your whole life ahead of you trying to figure out what to do. So yes, I can put myself in her shoes.

Not sure what I would do about this.

That makes two of us. I've talked and talked until I'm blue in the face and nothing seems to get through to her. She lives in this fantasy world where everyone owes her. For example, she asked me to get her some clothes. No problem. I'm a bargin shopper I like to go to the thrift store and I have several friends who recently had babies and had left over clothes. OOOOOOOOooh NO!! NO no no no! That won't do. She doesn't want anyting that anyone else has had on their body, no hand me downs for her. She wants us to go out and purchase all new clothes for her. To which Steve blew a gasket and told her that maybe the father of the baby should be throwing in here.

I'm hardly up with the latest vernacular myself. That is an additional problem, that the man refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.

He denies that he ever even dated her and denies that the baby is his. He even took her a picture of himself so that she could one day show the baby. How fuc*ed up is that. She thought he was so wonderful the other day because he took her to Taco Bell and bought her a pair of $3.00 flip flops at Walmart.

Don't worry about the racist bit, I'm not offended.
I see your point. How long was she seeing this thug?

Anyone who knows me on this board knows that racisim isn't my style. She saw him for about 3 weeks then she found out about the other woman and just yesterday we found out he is married. Oh yeah and did I mention that he recently got out prison. Not county lock up........prison!

Been there myself when I got clinically depressed for 4 months. You get so that you start to feel like nothing will ever be right again. I guess she needs some time to see just how hard it is out in the real world in order to get her motivation back. It sounds like she is smart, but not wise.

Not wise at all and it breaks my heart.

you take what you can find

That would be the point. She doens't want to take anyting she wants Steve and me to pay for everything. She doesn't want to get a job.

[Az]

Spiffor:

I am in favor of Euthanasia as well. The difference between Euthanasia and abortion is that the dead subject can actually express his will to live or lack thereof (of course, I am against forced 'euthanasia').

Do you favor euthanasia when the patient cannot speak his mind, too?

When it comes to abortion, only the parents are able to express it. It may be sad, but this definitely cannot be changed.

A. Why not?
B. currently, the mother, and the mother only has the right over the unborn child. This is wrong as well, IMO.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Asher
In the future can you hyphenate pro-life please? I keep reading it was "profiler"...

me too!

[Ben Kenobi]

That's it! I'll change my location text.

Must be 4 now with the same remark.

Tia:

She doesn't want anyting that anyone else has had on their body, no hand me downs for her.

Then she can buy her own clothes. I'll bet she will back down and accept the hand-me-downs.

Most of what I wear is thrift or bought on sale. No one really notices what you wear when they are all so wrapped up in themselves.

She thought he was so wonderful the other day because he took her to Taco Bell and bought her a pair of $3.00 flip flops at Walmart.

That's love for you. Too bad it's one-sided.

Oh yeah and did I mention that he recently got out prison. Not county lock up........prison!

It's a mystery to me, the attraction of women to ex-cons.

wants Steve and me to pay for everything. She doesn't want to get a job.

Won't have a choice for long.

[Zevico]

I have a question-if the unborn babies in question may be affected by the disease of their parents [AIDS; sexually transmitted diseases; etc?], would the anti abortionists here approve of abortion?
What about in areas where adoption of a baby is impossible or extremely difficuly to arrange-such as the poorer parts of Africa, or Asia?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
Do you favor euthanasia when the patient cannot speak his mind, too?

That assumes the patient in question has a mind. Zygotes, embryoes and fetuses clearly don't have minds.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
Spiffor:
Do you favor euthanasia when the patient cannot speak his mind, too?

If there is a strict ethical code that has been elaborated, and the euthanasia follows it spotlessly, yes. If a sickly is doomed, cannot expect anything in his remaining lifetime but pain, yet is too sick to express it, I don't see any moral problem in euthanasiing him.

A. Why not?

If you become a scientist Genius, and if you develop some chemical / genetic manipulation that gives the zygote a way to understand his surroundings and to react to them, go ahead. As long as the zygote is unable to understand what's happening outside and to express its views about it, only the parents can speak for him. Or Obiwan

B. currently, the mother, and the mother only has the right over the unborn child. This is wrong as well, IMO.

Absolutely, a child is the matter of both parents, except in the situations the father has decided to flee from it.

[Az]

That assumes the patient in question has a mind. Zygotes, embryoes and fetuses clearly don't have minds.

That mind is now basically non-existant. The patient may recover/reactivate it someday, however.

If you become a scientist Genius, and if you develop some chemical / genetic manipulation that gives the zygote a way to understand his surroundings and to react to them, go ahead. As long as the zygote is unable to understand what's happening outside and to express its views about it, only the parents can speak for him. Or Obiwan

Actually, by "why?" I meant "why can't this be changed?". Now, however, I think I misunderstood what you meant by "this".

Absolutely, a child is the matter of both parents, except in the situations the father has decided to flee from it.

currently, this is not the case. At least not with an unborn child. A mother is the only authority. I don't think it's right.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel

That assumes the patient in question has a mind. Zygotes, embryoes and fetuses clearly don't have minds.

That mind is now basically non-existant. The patient may recover/reactivate it someday, however.

I assume that the patient analogy is supposed to draw a parallel between a patient who can't speak for himself/herself (maybe due to a coma) and zygotes/embryoes/foetuses.

If so, there is no parallel. The patient has a mind that he or she cannot access. These other things do not have a mind.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel

Absolutely, a child is the matter of both parents, except in the situations the father has decided to flee from it.

currently, this is not the case. At least not with an unborn child. A mother is the only authority. I don't think it's right.

And I agree with you

[Az]

. The patient has a mind that he or she cannot access.

complete nonsense, as the patient IS the mind.

And I agree with you

[Ben Kenobi]

Zevico:

I have a question-if the unborn babies in question may be affected by the disease of their parents [AIDS; sexually transmitted diseases; etc?], would the anti abortionists here approve of abortion?

No. We don't kill born children who likewise suffer from AIDS, so why should we kill unborn children?

What about in areas where adoption of a baby is impossible or extremely difficuly to arrange-such as the poorer parts of Africa, or Asia?

Most of the mothers in this region see their children as their future, since there is a lack of social security. This is one of the reasons for big families, in the hope that some survive and prosper to adulthood.

In any case you have to look at the essentials of adoption. Could a woman drop a child off at the house of a childless friend? That does not require a high-tech society. Adoption has been practiced along these lines for quite some time.

It will be interesting to see the effects of widespread abortion, before adequate health-care. The African economy needs people, just like the European economy needed people in order to industrialise. If abortion takes hold there, will Africa ever modernise?

Zygotes, embryoes and fetuses clearly don't have minds.

UR:

What do you mean by mind? If you mean the ability to make choices for oneself, then we would have to lump in children as well.

[Ben Kenobi]

Azazel:

currently, this is not the case. At least not with an unborn child. A mother is the only authority. I don't think it's right.

It takes two to tango. We consider the father responsible for his child for child support even if the father did not want the child.

Clearly, if we are to have an equitable standard of the mother as the sole responsibility for her child, then we would have to get rid of child support.

[Spiffor]

It is terrible, I happen to agree wholeheartedly with Obiwan on bath latest posts (except maybe the answer to Obiwan, since I don't want to debate on Zygotes' sentience).

It just occured to me that many disagreements between smart anti-abortion people and pro-life people can be worked out... But then again, I am drunk