Commitee of Strategic Planning

[binTravkin]

And the initial plan with worker instead of settler:

Turn	Building	Production	Food	Growth	Pop	Angry	Special
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1840	Settler		40(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	1
25	Settler		53(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	0	whip 2 pop
24	Granary		23(+22*)/60	+4	0/26(7)	3	9
23	Granary		45(+5)/60	+4	4/26(6)	3	8
22	Granary		50(+5)/60	+4	8/26(5)	3	7
21	Granary		55(+5)/60	+4	12/26(4)3	6
20	Library		0(+5)/90	+4	16/26(3)3	5	Granary done
19	Library		5(+5)/90	+4	20/26(2)3	4
18	Library		10(+5)/90	+4	24/26(1)3	3
17	Library		15(+5)/90	+5	15/28(3)4	2
16	Library		20(+5)/90	+5	20/28(2)4	1
15	Library		25(+5)/90	+5	25/28(1)4	0	Whip 2 pop
*end	Library		90(+30)/90	+3	25/24(0)2	10	for 3 bundles
14	Colossus	0(+77)/250	+4	16/26(3)3	9
13	Colossus	77(+11)/250	+4	20/26(2)3	8
12	Colossus	88(+11)/250	+4	24/26(1)3	7
11	Colossus	99(+11)/250	+5	15/28(3)4	6
10	Colossus	101(+11)/250	+5	20/28(2)4	5
9	Colossus	121(+11)/250	+5	25/28(1)4	4
8	Colossus	132(+11)/250	+3	18/30(1)5	3	one unhappy
*switch	Worker		0(+10)/80	0	18/30(-)5	2
7	Worker		10(+10)/80	0	18/30(-)5	1	whip 2 pop
*whip	Worker		80(+30)/80	0	18/26(-)3	11
6	Colossus	132(+77)/250	+4	18/26(2)3	10
5	Colossus	209(+11)/250	+4	22/26(1)3	9
4	Colossus	220(+11)/250	+5	13/28(3)4	8
3	Colossus	231(+11)/250	+5	18/28(2)4	7
2	Colossus	242(+11)/250	+5	23/28(1)4	6
*switch	Barracks	0(+5)/40	+5	23/28(1)4	6
1	Barracks	5(+5)/40	+3	14/30(6)5	5	1 unhappy
0	Barracks	10(+5)/40	+3	17/30(5)5	4
*switch Colossus	242(+11)/250	+3	17/30(5)5	4
-1	Barracks	10(+6)/40	+3	18/30(4)5	3	Colossus done
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Impaler[WrG]]

Remember Granary only stores half the food AFTER the completion of the granary, your calculations reflect Old-School CivII granary

20 Library 0(+5)/90 +4 16/26(3)3 5 Granary done
19 Library 5(+5)/90 +4 20/26(2)3 4
18 Library 10(+5)/90 +4 24/26(1)3 3
17 Library 15(+5)/90 +5 15/28(3)4 2

Whe the pop grows from 3 to 4 the food box only 10 food has been contributed sinse the completion of the granary so should be retaining 5 after growth. This means you will not get the instant re-growth later for the double whip as food would be only 14/24, The engineer would have to be sent to the Rice for a turn or two to get us back to 3 population which I know you dont want to do.

In any corse I support the initial double whip on the Settler and the over flow going into the Granary to complete it next. If were not able to get the rest of the details finalized before that point we should stilll do the whip (that the next turn correct? Given that its the week end we should be seeing the next turn by tomorrow)

[binTravkin]

Ugh, right forgot about that. It would actually be 8/28 after that first growth.

Generally the sooner we do the whip, the sooner we do the next whip the sooner we get the hammers which translates into turn advantage..
In SP games I often whip a turn before the angriness expires - it's (the old unhappy face) gone next turn anyway.

[Maniac]

Could we not mess around somewhat with library and settler/worker production so that we can get whip 3 bundels for two pops at the same time we reach size 5 and the previous anger runs out?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
(that the next turn correct?

No the turn after, if I understand correctly at least. We need to be at 66 hammers when we open the turn.

[Maniac]

Does no one have a turn simulator? This would be much easier.

[binTravkin]

Could we not mess around somewhat with library and settler/worker production so that we can get whip 3 bundels for two pops at the same time we reach size 5 and the previous anger runs out?

If you take a look at the last tab I made you'll see where the problem is - with engineer lifted we're simply growing too slow without granary.
Other than that it has 1x 2pop 2bundles and 2x 2pop 3bundles.

Had we built granary earlier, that wouldn't have been a problem.
Now the only thing we can do with any good efficency is simply putting engineer down as a worker once we get to low pop.

You can trickle around with the last table and see if you can squeeze out more.

I googled for the turn simulator and seems noone has even started a discussion about making such yet.

We could set up a game thru editor, tho.
Probably I can do it once I get some free time.

[Maniac]

I don't follow anymore. Don't know when I have to add up which numbers.
Anyway, I'd like to find something, so that when we whip, we immediately grow back. This is especially important when we whip two pops at once.
As we always keep 4 pop, we can always work the engineer, flood plains and rice.
Btw, if you whip when there's still eg one turn anger left, don't you get two unhappy people for a full 11 turns?

Turn	Building	Production	Food	Growth	Pop	Ang
ry	Special
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1840	Settler		53(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	0
25	Settler		66(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	10	whip 1 pop
24	Settler		126(+5)/100	+5	5/28(-)	4	9	Settler done
overflowGranary		23(+31)/100	+5	5/28(-)	4	9	
23	Granary		54(+5)/60	+5	10/28(-)4	8
22	Granary		59(+5)/60	+5	15/28(-)4	7	
21	Kolos		4(+11)/250	+5	20/28(5)4	6	Granary done
20	Kolos		15(+11)/250	+5	25/28(10)4	5
19	Kolos		26(+11)/250	+3	8/30(2) 5	4	1 unhappy
18	Kolos		37(+11)/250	+3	11/30(5)5	3
17	Library		0(+5)/90	+3	14/30(8)5	2
16	Library		5(+5)/90	+3	17/30(11)5	1
15	Library		10(+10)/90	+3	20/30(14)5	0	no unhappy
14	Library		20(+8)/90	+4	23/30(17)5	0	switch to grass mine
13	Library		28(+10)/90	+3	26/30(20)5	10	whip 2 pop
12	Library		118(+95)/90	+5	13/28(3)4	9	Library done
overflowSettler		28(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	9
11	Settler		38(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	8
10	Settler		48(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	7
9	Settler		58(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	6
8	Settler		68(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	5
7	Settler		78(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	4
6	Settler		88(+10)/100	 0	13/28(3)4	3
5	Kolos		48(+11)/250	+5	18/28(8)4	2
4	Kolos		59(+11)/250	+5	23/28(13)4	1
3	Settler		103(+12)/100	 0	9/30(0)5	0
overflowKolos		62(+22)/250	+3	9/30(0)5	0
2	Kolos		84(+22)/250	+3	12/30(3)5	0
1	Kolos		106(+22)/250	+3	15/30(6)5	0
0	Kolos		128(+22)/250	+3	18/30(9)5	0
-1	Kolos		150(+22)/250	+3	21/30(12)5	0
whip Kolos somewhere at this point, before we grow to size 6?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[binTravkin]

I see alternating between Colossus and settler in the end a bit strange.
You could simply whip it for 2 pop (and 3 bundles) which would free some turns up for production of Colossus and translate into pretty massive overflow (see some of my tabs where settler is whipped for an extra bundle).

Also we cant whip Colossus at less than
167 hammers if we have 4pop (and it would be beneficial to try and get more as this point is identified as 'bugged' in Blake's calculations)
125 hammers if we have 6pop(same here)

I would actually be much in favour if we manage to get those 125 (128 or 129 is the best)hammers invested in combination with 6pop as that would mean only a few (up to 7) turns production, with other part of queue being freed up for something else, like completion of barracks before GE and probably a unit.

I'll make another tab with this new information in mind (was foolish to not check at first time)

[binTravkin]

Btw, if you whip when there's still eg one turn anger left, don't you get two unhappy people for a full 11 turns?

Nope, you get one unhappy for one turn (which in most cases doesn't matter at all cause you're above or at happy cap anyway after losing pop from whip) and one for 11 turns.
The times stack, not the persons.

As we always keep 4 pop, we can always work the engineer, flood plains and rice.

Im afraid then we have to skip the proposed 2pop for 3bundles policy, as we can only afford 1pop whipped for now.
However, I would advise the opposite, because, as you can see in tabs I made, after granary comes fully effective our growth times up to 5 pop will be 3 or 4 turns, which means that during the cooldown of 2pop whip we actually get like 3 pop back (adding the accumulated food vs shortened bar here), which means its beneficial for us to go low now, as if we dont in 20 turns we'd be running 6 pop per average, at which point we could be having problems with providing enough hapiness unless Calendar, Monarchy or Drama are obtained (which I dont think will be so soon).


Once we reach 6pop average margin I suggest we whip GL (need between 122 and 139 hammers invested for a good 3pop whip).

[Mart]

any clue where is the second Banana city?

[binTravkin]

Somewhere south, on the coast and not connected to the river. Probably on a hapiness resource or at least right next to one.

Maniac, I reviewed your tab and there are a few little mistakes.
I'll try to fix them a bit later, maybe it's better than it looks like.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I though the Silver/Copper site was the likliest place, its the only happy resorce we know of that they could have accessed

[binTravkin]

Oh, right, that could be it (I forgot you cant see what's founded behind the fog )!

[Maniac]

I think I misunderstood how granaries and overflow work in my previous try.

1840	Settler		53(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	0
25	Settler		66(+13)/100	0	0/30(-)	5	10	whip 1 pop
24	Settler		126(+5)/100	+5	5/28(-)	4	9	Settler done
overflowGranary		23(+31)/100	+5	5/28(-)	4	9	
23	Granary		54(+5)/60	+5	10/28(-)4	8
22	Granary		59(+5)/60	+5	15/28(-)4	7	
21	Kolos		11(+11)/250	+5	20/28(5)4	6	Granary done
20	Kolos		22(+11)/250	+5	25/28(10)4	5
19	Library		0(+5)/90	+3	12/30(2) 5	4	1 unhappy
18	Library		5(+5)/90	+3	15/30(5)5	3
17	Library		10(+5)/90	+3	18/30(8)5	2
16	Library		15(+5)/90	+3	21/30(11)5	1
15	Library		25(+10)/90	+3	24/30(14)5	10	whip 2 pop
14	Library		120(+5)/90	+5	14/28(2)4	9	Library done
overflowKolos		63(+11)/250	+5	14/28(2)4	9
13	Worker		0(+10)/60	 0	14/28(2)4	8
12	Worker		10(+10)/60	 0	14/28(2)4	7
11	Worker		20(+10)/60	 0	14/28(2)4	5
10	Worker		30(+10)/60	 0	14/28(2)4	4
9	Worker		40(+10)/60	 0	14/28(2)4	3
8	Kolos		77(+11)/250	+5	19/28(7)4	2
7	Kolos		88(+11)/250	+5	24/28(12)4	1
6	Kolos		110(+22)/250	+3	14/30(1)5	0
5	Worker		53(+13)/60	 0	14/30(1)5	0
4	Worker		66(+13)/60	 0	14/30(1)5	0	Worker done
overflowKolos		124(+22)/250	+3	14/30(1)5	0
3	Kolos		146(+22)/250	+3	17/30(4)5	0
2	Kolos		158(+22)/250	+3	21/30(7)5	0
1	Kolos		180(+22)/250	+3	24/30(10)5	0
0	Kolos		202(+22)/250	+3	27/30(13)5	0

Then if at T+1, we used the engineer to hurry the pyramids and switch to Representation, we could just continue growing to size 6.