Commitee of Strategic Planning

[binTravkin]

We could aswell whip the Colossus at as near to 189/250 as possible, which would turn into some overflow and take away 2 citizens.

I think there's no need to support 6th citizen, which is gonna do nothing and only hang around eating the food.

EDIT: if only for whipping something with 3pop

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I think there's no need to support 6th citizen, which is gonna do nothing and only hang around eating the food.

Not the case if we build the Pyramids.

How many hammers would a two or three-pop whip give?

[binTravkin]

Depends on what you whip

Check in spreadsheet, by Blake.

[Maniac]

Thanks.

Btw, you do agree to whip two bundles with one pop instead of two, right? Meaning not to whip yet next turn?

[binTravkin]

Yes, I agree, before Granary is done, we can't afford to kill to many of our peons..
Im however unsure about the plan details, will check if there's anyhing better.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Pyrimids would meen we have to research Machinery the slow way, what kind of time frame would we be looking at then? Would war even remain an option? Personaly I think we are doing ok under the current pop limits, most tiles beyond the best 4 are rather mediocur the additional pop wont bring in much. Also theirs Monarchy in the not to distant future which gives us our wine +1 happy and military garrisons for even more.

[binTravkin]

Pyrimids would meen we have to research Machinery the slow way, what kind of time frame would we be looking at then?

30 turns at best.

[binTravkin]

I chose the second (proposed by Maniac) option as of now - whip with 1 turns delay, because it has following benefits over the first:

- +5hammers investment
- at least 5 more food produced in following 10 turns
- at least 25 more commerce generated in following 10 turns
- more benefits due to never going below 4 pop after the next whip

at the expense of single turn delay of settler production, which translates into some 4 less food, 2-3 less hammers and 1 less gold produced from the third city in next 10 turns.

I think that's an obviously better scenario.

[N35t0r]

Especially since we'll have an extra worker turn availiable to improve it

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
30 turns at best.

I suspect it would be less, considering our research rate would increase with more cities, grown cottages, a library, +3 science from Representation specialists, more pops in general due to Representation, etc. Also the more developed our economy is, the shorter it will take to build up an army.

How many units did we want to build before invading btw? What time frame are we looking at because of that?

[binTravkin]

Machinery costs 1001 beaker.
With our current research output we'll be able to make it in 38 turns, with library added in some 33 turns, with some little more commerce our cities are gonna give us for now, in 30.
I don't expect much cottage growth so soon, especially because our second two cities are not gonna be cottage heavy and Beijing should work at least one of the mines, given hapiness cap is raised.

How many units did we want to build before invading btw?

I made some predictions earlier.
For the initial attack it would be enough with 6 chukos and a few others - axe or two and sword or two.
Once we take the capital, the second (and third) cities will be much easier.

[N35t0r]

1k beakers for free isn't something to scoff at.

Besides, if we can manage to get to Monarchy soonish, the 1 happy per military unit can be really useful...

I'm sort of ambivalent on the whole pyramids vs machinery thing...

[binTravkin]

I'm sort of ambivalent on the whole pyramids vs machinery thing...

Of course, everyone can have his own opinion.
We might need to list pros and cons of both things as precisely as we can, at some point.

I, personally, prefer the Machinery approach myself and I also expect someone to finish Pyramids in the next 25 turns.
With stone hooked up and a few chops to assist, it shouldn't be that hard..

EDIT:
Perhaps we could encourage Bananas to do it for the fun.
Once they hook up the stone, they have +150% modifiers, so they only need to produce like 10 hammers per turn avg to complete it in 20 or less turns.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Machinery costs 1001 beaker.
With our current research output we'll be able to make it in 38 turns, with library added in some 33 turns, with some little more commerce our cities are gonna give us for now, in 30.

The engineer would give +3 beakers (+50% for library), so I think 25 turns would be a better estimate.

Originally posted by binTravkin
I made some predictions earlier.
For the initial attack it would be enough with 6 chukos and a few others - axe or two and sword or two.
Once we take the capital, the second (and third) cities will be much easier.

So that would be 20 turns preparation at best, assuming we don't build anything else (such as galleys or great lighthouse) in Beijing and Tassagrad?

Frankly I consider getting the Pyramids, the Great Lighthouse, some Galleys to make contact with other civs more important than to rush the Bananas, which I don't see how it could provide much benefits this early in the game.
It'll still be a long while before they could build a better unit to beat Choks. What's the rush?

Why not delay a bit? The difference in estimated invasion time would definitely be less than 25 turns, considering our increased Beijing production, and the fact that we can build axeman and swordsman in advance.

[binTravkin]

The engineer would give +3 beakers (+50% for library)

It's 25% for library

25 can be achieved only after we make two more cottages at Beijing, and one more at some other city, as that needs 40 beaker total output (currently we're having half that).

If you're asking if we'll be able to complete Machinery in 25 turns, then my answer is yes, but let me remind you, that will be 50 turns from now, which means the Banana infrastructure will be far more advanced, borders greater and military stronger.
Add the fact that they will be having contact with at least one civ which would be interested to trade them helpful military techs to get us in a long term war and add the fact that by that time Construction might well be around as a tech for trade, and it all turns not so good for us.

The good thing about rushing bananas is that the war will be quick and decisive, should we do the needed preparation and use our massive tech advantage properly, and after the war we will have all the time in the world to do our peaceful/not so peaceful buildup, +~50% production capacity, twice as much resources, twice as much territory, good reputation as military strong civ, a bunch of strong, expierenced troops and much less chance for someone to intervene in our internal matters (late conflict can turn into wider front easily).