Banana Embassy

[Impaler[WrG]]

Latest turn revealed Copper north of the Banana Capitol, I recomend that we DO include this in our Screen Trade.

Tech analysis shows its unlikly they have BW so revealing this to them constitures a significant gesture on are part.

As they dont have BW they would need to re-direct their tech efforts their and at their slower rate it would be near 10 turns before they finsished it and began accessing the Copper so we lose little in terms of miliary advantage, at best they can achive unit parity from this. Our Industrial Trait still gives us the long turm advantage in any drawn-out conflict and Spearmen largly nutralize WarChariots.

It redirects their City founding away from us.

This guesture would entail some reciprication on their part, likly we could get an agreement to exclusive acess to the Marble, or at the least make clear our claim to it.

Furthur more I belive we should come right out and ask them if they are persuing an Oracle Slingshot. We would state that were interested in doing it and want to avoid duplicated and wasted effort. It would be more efficient for one of us (them) to go Writing, Alpabet, Lituratue->GreatLibrary branch as the other developes Metals and other techs. We would give them Marble for the Library in exchange for their aquiesing the Oracle to us as and a free Tech of their choice upon Trading ability. They can achive tech trading soon atwhich point we can exchange techs liberaly including Masonry for them to get Pyrimids (hopefully still avalible) and look towards each grabing a religion.

If their open to further negotiations on these lines then more detailed plans could be layed with highly precise calculations of Tech rates and Buildrates that each side provides.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Furthur more I belive we should come right out and ask them if they are persuing an Oracle Slingshot. We would state that were interested in doing it and want to avoid duplicated and wasted effort. It would be more efficient for one of us (them) to go Writing, Alpabet, Lituratue->GreatLibrary branch as the other developes Metals and other techs. We would give them Marble for the Library in exchange for their aquiesing the Oracle to us as and a free Tech of their choice upon Trading ability. They can achive tech trading soon atwhich point we can exchange techs liberaly including Masonry for them to get Pyrimids (hopefully still avalible) and look towards each grabing a religion.

This post makes me question even more what the heck is the use of an Oracle slingshot!?!

If you'd want to offer them a free tech to let us build the Oracle, what is the use of building the Oracle ourselves? Why not revert it? We give them Marble so they can build the Oracle, and we ask some tech for free in return? We'd still get the advantage of the Oracle without building it...

I know most people here are more experienced in Civ4 than me, but I still fail to see what's so good about the Oracle. I get the impression this Oracle slingshot is something like Industrial Automation in SMAC. It's (inaccurately) perceived as the only good tech path no matter what faction you're playing. While in reality some factions such as the Cult or Spartans would be better off following other b-lines.

So if we were a Spiritual or Philosophical civ, I could definitely see the use of an Oracle slingshot. If we were Spritual, because of the chance to get Confucianism and Taoism. If we were Philosophical, because of Pacifism and Civil Service (more farms!).

But we are neither. I can't see anything in the Code of Laws path that immediately plays into our Financial and Industrious traits (except Bureaucracy I just realized).

It was proposed to choose Metal Casting as our free Oracle tech instead. But doesn't that diminish the use of the Oracle? IIRC Metal Casting is only some 600+ beakers tech, while we'd already need to spend 250+ research points just to get to the tech that allows us to build the Oracle.

Anyway, this probably doesn't belong in the Banana embassy.

PS: low priority of course, but wouldn't the Pyramids be good for us as well: immediate access to that hammer town providing civic?

[-SafaN-]

i don't like oracle slingshot either, far to risky and with a better techpath like early libraries or early cottages u can outtech that one single shot.

[Impaler[WrG]]

If we asked and the Bananas were realy gungho for the Oracle then I could see potential for a Marble for Tech Trade. But i doupt they would agree to ANY tech of our choice. Probably something like Writing or Med+Priesthood rather then the tech from the Oracle pop.

Oracle is a rather flexible strategy as it can be used for several different techs and is potentialy very powerfull. I would not say its equal to the Crawler in SMAC (its not that broken) I would peg it closer to CloudBaseAcadamy (a major universaly desirable wonder but not a game ender).

I agree theirs risk involved and the Fishing->Sailing->LightHouse plan is a lot safer. Using a GM to get MetalCasting would be nice but its atleast 50 turns before the Wonder would produce enough points as we cant use a Merchant specialist to speed things up, that too long to wait in my opinion. The desision needs to be made on the next tech, Fishing or Meditation or Writing (which would be very nice for the Library)

[Lacero]

Oracle slingshot is amazing if you get a good tech, Civil Service or Theology for example. But getting those is a significant risk and we can barely afford the risk of going for CoL.

I can see the great library being better for us, especially if we can somehow build it near the border to get a culture boost against the evil banana.

[Impaler[WrG]]

So what do people think of proposal to fully recipricate all map information including resorces, state our claim to marble and a willingness to trade it in exchange for tech at a later date. And asking Bannas if they are aiming for Oracle?

Its been a week and we havent responded yet, even with a thankyou. We realy need to say something and reciprication on maps is the only thing that will keep us from looking like total jerks. Thoughts comments?

[ForesterSOF]

Send a screen without the marble showing.

[Impaler[WrG]]

And what about the Copper and asking them about Oracle?

[-SafaN-]

For me its okay to show them everything and asking if they are going for oracle

i agree we need to answer asap, but i cannot make such a text. My english is not subtle ennuf for that

if we have no text tonite i'll send the screenshot with a line saying maniac is on vacation and the text will follow later?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Ok I will compose a little message with several parts depending on what we wish to do.


Greatings and Salutations honored Bananaian Embasador, long has it been since our main diplomate Maniac contacted you so I, Impaler[WrG] have filled this position temporarily. Still our delay was considerable especialy considering the generosity on your part, the followers of the great Chairman Yang humbaly beg your forgivness and hope that our own reciprications may make amends.


Your generous gift of maps has won many converts, we in return now offer you all our maps. Atached below our the latest maps our scouts have obtained, areas previously unkown to you have been charted and our knowlage of Metals has revealed valuable ores to the north of your Capitol and to the East of ours, the heavens have been generous to both our civilizations for we have easy access to all we need without the need to trade these goods over long distances nor squable over a meager supply. Two instances of Incense in the southern desert and another Wheat to our north will also provide ample supply for both our needs. We have not ourselves located any of the odd beasts you call horses, perhaps your warrior will find them in the west as well as the south, our newest scout can now assist in the western exploration as well.

The lack of a border agreement was disapointing to us but we see your minds our set, thus we will speak of this issue no more.

Lastly I come to potentialy the most pivotal information, the followers of Yang have discovered a source of the most precious and fine grained Marble sutable for the creation of Wonderous structures. We, in trust reveal its location to you but we make the following claim and offer. We claim the right to found a city next to said Marble but we are open to trading it to you imediatly, if our claim is recognized and respected.

Our scholars belives based on your current Research that you intend to Build an Oracle. If so then you would find Marble a valuable resorce, I propose coperation to achive this goal along with an agreement to share what ever discoveries may result. We would furnish you with Marble supplies to both accelerate construction and allow you to bypass Masonry and go strait to Writing after Priesthood. We would direct our efforts towards the Sea and attempt to build the Great LightHouse and Collosus and continue to incresse our knowlage in metals and Machinery. You would be in a good position to develop the Alphabet at which point we could liberaly trade technologies and continue onward.

If our scolars have been in error and you intentions lie elseware, then let us discuss the best plan for mutual coperation, we are shure the Banans see their is so much to be gained by doing so.

[Lacero]

nice, although telling them we're goin for machinery could be interpreted as "we're b-lining cho ko nu"

[Maniac]

Just received this:

Maniac of Centauri,
I pray to The Great Banana, whose name dare not be spoken, that we have not offended your people so much that you ignore us. Our women have again taken to wearing the peels of lamentation.

regards,
The Diplomatic Banana

Glad to see you writing a diplomatic message, cause if you didn't notice it yet, I want to get rid of the position of diplomat.

Originally posted by Lacero
nice, although telling them we're goin for machinery could be interpreted as "we're b-lining cho ko nu"

I think they'll expect us to b-line to that no matter we tell them or not.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Ok I can do the Diplomate job for a bit but I dont know much about the means we are using to send and recive messages, I remember something about a public "In-Box" e-mail account , what is it. Also can someone prepare screen-shoots showing all our current maps. I'm still not clear on everyonese opinion is my proposed message acceptable?

[-SafaN-]

use this picture

the mailbox is gmail:

account: c4dg.centaurians@gmail.com
pass: spacerace

i got no comments with your text, lets assume when nobody answers its okay.

They have their special unit already, its not wrong to beeline for it. Just make sure they feel the wonders are the most important for us

greetz

[Maniac]

Message sounds good to me.
Perhaps tell them I've requested transfer to the military.

Can our first axeman be called "Maniac The (Axeman)"?