Banana Embassy

[binTravkin]

Anything to quell nye's paranoia.

We better try to quell by diplomatical means, otherwise we're giving away our tech advantage.

[Senethro]

Of course, thats why I said a cheap tech. The act is more valuable than the gift itself.

In nyes position I would look very unfavorably upon Faction A that is keeping its trade ability exclusive and doing a deal with both Factions B and C, while preventing B and C from trading with each other.

[binTravkin]

Yes, the situation in no way benefits the factions that are not owning Alphabet, but it's a logical situation and nothing to be extremely annoyed with.
The deal proposed by Impaler is actually pretty generous as it disables our tech broker ability and we should emphasize on that, to show we're fair, not give any gifts.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think the deal looks sweet for Bananas, I dont see how they can complain as their getting techs they need desperatly in exchange for rather useless techs. I think we should look to sweeten Storms offer as well to keep them from thinking were showing favoratism. We might offer them Alphabet instead of Meditation. I dont think their will be much danger of Storm using Alphabet to do much trading, Banans arn't going to have much to offer anyone for some time and Storm wont want to trade its valuable military techs like Masonry and Mathematics to a team they are even remotly considering war against. We still have MC up our sleaves and can probably trade it for construction with Storm at about the time our war starts.

[Impaler[WrG]]

RESPONSE SENT



Thankyou my friend Impaler[WrG] greets you warmly and begs your forgivness for he must speek harshly,

Centauri can not accept the kind of tech exchanging you desire, in which each side simply gifts all their tech to the other no questions asked. This would simply be too lopsided of an exchange at the present time and it would dis-incentive both sides from research in general. Centauri reiterates its firm determination to trade on a mutually beneficial quid-pro-quo basis. Given our strong tech rate and the trust placed in us as the Tech arbitrator we will relax our earlier desire to trade beaker for beaker, our offers will generally reslt in AC giving away more beakers then it receives. We strongly urge team Banana to not duplicate existing Centauri technologies as this will result in reduced trade possibilities, without something of value to trade team Banana can not expect to receive anything from us. Currently Banana possess two techs that Centauri dose not, Meditation which is of zero practical value and Priesthood which is of value only so long as the Oracle is not built, which it likely will be before we can trade. Clearly Bananas needs to strengthen its portfolio of trad able techs. Centauri feels that the following tenative trade would be most generous on its part, (Iron Working and Writing for Meditation, Fishing and Sailing) to be followed the next turn with (Priesthood for Archery). Banana would receive a full 144 beakers more then it gives (399 vs 542) and could increase its tech rate with a library along with receiving the key defense techs it wants faster then it could research them on its own, but all of this is conditional on team Banana directing its research towards the key techs that Centauri wants namely Fishing and Sailing. If my team approves fully (its still under discussion along with a similarly generous offer to Storm) a binding treaty could be signed in a reasonable time frame.

We thank you for the latest map you have sent us though it dose not reveal much we did not know, do you desire a copy of our map all be it shows roughly the same area? We have not yet traded maps with Storm nor reached their territory, have you yourselves made any progress in that regard. Also did you receive the map of Iron resources we sent some time ago?

Personaly I would recomend connecting your southern city with your capitol as the first step to connectin to Storm via road as they are south of that point, I would recomend you contact them directly.

I be live another chat is in order soon but not this weekend, it is too short notice for one and Centauri continues to formulate and ratify its proposals. I think next weekend is more conducive, how dose your schedule look that weekend, what days and times are best and would an early afternoon meeting be viable so that Centauri's many European members could attend.

[binTravkin]

Impaler, why do you propose them key defense techs if we're going to attack?
Masonry would have been a way better deal.

[binTravkin]

Ok, I know how to fix this - delay trading Archery and propose Masonry instead saying that we'll give Archery later, once we trade it. They need it and they will take it.

Also I wouldnt sell Alphabet to GS - if we're guessing right they have met Mercs, which means trading in some good techs wont be a problem for them.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Masonry would give them walls which they could build rapidly with stone are much stronger then archers. Archer is Power 3 +50% city defense, 1 First Strike vs a Chuko at 6 with 2 First Strikes. 4.5 vs 6 = Victory. A swordsman behind a wall would be 6 +50% vs 6 +50% for a draw.

We can always change the proposal, I stated it was provisonal. Also realize that by seeming to agree to their defensive desire we apear non-agressive decressing their liklyhood of defensive building and incressing the liklyhood that they will focus most of what they do create in the south to guard against Bananas. Their Capitol will be our main target once its taken the south will be a moping up action after our units have healed.

[Impaler[WrG]]

What would Mercs be likly to have that they could trade to Storm? After the big exchanges the Continet will collectivly be so far ahead in tech that It will greatly reduce the chances for any inter-continental trading. Mercs are not Financial and forign inteligence puts them at 8 techs which is relativly backwards. I would also suspect that Mercs would research Alphabet soon on their own to act as Tech brokers or except tech rather then coin for contracts early in the game.

Overall I dont think its a major risk in the short to mid term, the main issue is do we think it we should do it for diplomatic purposes. A generous Storm offer will help us solidify relations with them, we want them to already think they "owe us one" when they find out about MC secrecy on our part, it will help it go down smoother.

[binTravkin]

Masonry would give them walls which they could build rapidly with stone are much stronger then archers.

You should have expressed this argument before.

When defending the strongest of either walls or culture bonus is taken.
As Bananas have high culture bonuses, walls give them almost nothing.

However, archer city defense bonus is cumulative with all other bonuses and they are very cheap.

Archer in Banana capital would be
3 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.6) = 6.2 plus up to 0.25 fortify bonus
versus 6 of our chuko

Swordsman in Banana capital would be
6 * (1 + 0.6) = 9.6 plus up to 0.25 fortify bonus
versus 9 of our chuko
and cost almost twice as much


We must do all we can to reverse this Archery proposal - the less time they spend with Archery the faster will be our victory.

[binTravkin]

What would Mercs be likly to have that they could trade to Storm? After the big exchanges the Continet will collectivly be so far ahead in tech that It will greatly reduce the chances for any inter-continental trading. Mercs are not Financial and forign inteligence puts them at 8 techs which is relativly backwards. I would also suspect that Mercs would research Alphabet soon on their own to act as Tech brokers or except tech rather then coin for contracts early in the game.

You underestimate the possibilities of philosophical trait.
If Mercs have Writing now, it's no prioblem for them to output a GS in next 9 turns, which would pop Maths, and the next one in 18 turns, which would pop Calendar, then trade Calendar for Alphabet to GS and here you go, GS has a happy cap we can't match anyhow and quickly outruns us economically.
Also, we're not talking about now, we're talking about time in 20 turns and more.

[ForesterSOF]

The deception in giving them masonry would work psychologicly till units and walls built.

Hold sending Masonry untill a few turns till attack.

Remember that if you want to be a true polititian you have to smile while you are stabbing someone in the back.

[N35t0r]

Your maths is a bit off, since the 50% bonus our chukos get substract from their strength rather than add to our strength, which results in a small differenc ein our favour.

[binTravkin]

Your maths is a bit off, since the 50% bonus our chukos get substract from their strength rather than add to our strength, which results in a small differenc ein our favour.

Well, in the combat odds screen it shows adding up, so I dont understand why it should actually be different, especially because then a swordsman becomes of strenght 3 in the field versus a chuko or mace, which isn't really the case afaik, as in that situation the odds would be 100:0

[N35t0r]

Check the final numbers in the combat odds screen.