Imperio: Diplomacy Thread #2

[sooooo]

Well there's no way Imperio can capture Constantinople in 3 turns. If we say that then Imperio will know we're screwing them over. Instead of declaring war on templars they will instead send some longbows through Incan lands into Jerusalem. That's not what we want.

[Sullla]

Hmmm... these are some extremely important negotiations, and we have to be careful what we say to Imperio. I think we may be going about this the wrong way. If we were interested in working with Imperio in truth, we would want the terms of agreement to be as specific as possible, so we could hammer out a real partnershup. However, since we intend on backstabbing them the minute Templars are gone, we should instead seek to do the opposite, littering our messages with vagueness and obfuscation.

For example, we don't want ANY timetable in place for returning Jerusalem to Imperio. Once we have something in writing, it will be obvious when we start violating it. Better to leave the situation really vague; we capture Jerusalem, keep it, and wait around (doing nothing) until Imperio contacts *US* about the matter. Knowing their team, this may take a while. We can then ignore their message for several days, pleading that we were "too busy" to answer, and only THEN tell Imperio that we are holding the city until they capture Constantinople. That's the better way to do things, IMO, and makes us look less suspicious (just sloppy and absent-minded).

I would like our current message to be really short, NOT talking about the post-Templar situation at all. I would tell Imperio:

- We are approaching Jerusalem with our army.
- When are you entering the war?
- Please Close Borders with PAL (insert economic argument here).

And nothing more than that. Basically, the more unclear the situation surrounding Jerusalem, the more plausible deniability that we have there. We'll know what our plan for the future will be, no reason to share much info at all with Imperio.

[T-hawk]

I don't have any actual message suggestions, but I definitely agree with Sullla's approach. Playing stonewall and stupid is to our best interest here. Loose lips sink ships. More talk just gives them more opportunity to figure out what we're up to.

[Swiss Pauli]

This is the relevant clause with Imperio:

- Las cuatro ciudades de Templars son para nosotros. Vosotros sólo tenéis que capturar Jerusalem y entregarla a Imperio una vez tengáis el control de la ciudad.

- The Templars' four cities are ours. You only need to capture Jerusalem and give it to Imperio once it is under your control.

So by handing over Jerusalem stright away, we're complying with the treaty. Obfuscation is not really going to help us: we have been a straight-talking and communicative team, so going silent now is only going to look suspicious. By seeming transparent, we can better fool Imperio than by being evasive, so I'd propose two options to Imperio:

- Quote treaty clause.

Option 1: RB captures Jerusalem in 3/4 turns and immediately gifts it to Imperio, as agreed in our treaty. Our troops withdraw to Jericho to heal (and to reduce revolt risk in the city) because we lose a lot of money for having our army outside our borders.

Option 2: RB captures Jerusalem in 3/4 turns, and holds it until Imperio takes Constantinople. Holding the city will cost RB X gold per turn in maintenance*, so Imperio agrees to pay RB X gold per turn until Imperio captures Constantinople. *[insert maintenance calculation here]

Given the current position of Imperio's troops, and the lack of roads south of Lakamha, we're not going to be able to get them to attack Constantinople without offering them a carrot-and-stick style incentive to do so. This plan also covers us finacially and diplomatically if they go for Damascus first (as looks likely).

[sooooo]

If we are vague, stonewall and stupid then Imperio will go after Damascus first and that's not what we want. We really want to tie them into attacking Constantinople and stress the importance of doing so.

[Swiss Pauli]

If we are vague, stonewall and stupid then Imperio will go after Damascus first and that's not what we want. We really want to tie them into attacking Constantinople and stress the importance of doing so.

I don't think we can tie them into attacking Constaninople, rather we need to persuade them of the logic for changing their plans and doing so but if we can't (and they would need to decide before they move this turn i.e. within the next 8 hours) then we need to cover ourselves, hence my two-option plan.

[MyOtherCar]

They are probably going for Damascus since it will be less defended than Constantinople. Typical for Imperio to take the low road once again. They are really trying to let us do all the dirty work.

For them to capture Istanbul, would take at least 4 turns, since it will take, I believe 3 turns to get their units into position over unroaded territory. But with 11 cats in their stack, once they get there, the siege could be over rather quick.

[Sullla]

Why don't we want them attacking Damascus? I don't think it matters that much which Templar cities they hit first. For that matter, we don't have to declare war on them the instant that the 10-turn grace period is up either. The key thing is getting the first strike in on them, and having it come as a totally unexpected attack. If it takes them a little while to reach Constantinople, more time for us to build up our military. There's no need for hurry.

Swiss, I think you're over-stating the legalese of the treaty we signed with Imperio. This is a team that looks like it's going to miss another turn (less than 2 hours left, and still no login from them!) If they're so disorganized that no one is even playing the turns, they probably aren't going to demand instant following of an email exchange.

Anyway, I still think that it's best for us to stonewall and give out as little information as possible.

[Dreylin]

I agree with SP; up to now we have been fairly communicative (perhaps overly so from their POV), so clamming up now might make the suspicious. (of course they may not notice at all).

[sooooo]

So should we just send an email like this:

Dear Imperio,

We need to coordinate our attack on the Templars. It would be nice to surprise them from both sides at the same time. We are fairly flexible, so if you tell us your plans we can try to strike Jerusalem for maximum advantage to us both.

Also, my team has requested if you would close borders with PAL? They are getting +2 intercontinental trade routes in every coastal city from the great lighthouse and closing borders with them will stop them running away in GNP.

Thanks for the resource trade.

Realms Beyond

P.S. Reply in Spanish if you want.

[T-hawk]

I like sooooo's message. It asks for info without giving away anything.

[Kodii]

Imperio has missed their turn.

[Dreylin]

I like the message.

Imperio may have queued all their moves/production for last turn in the previous turn. It could be a cunning ploy to convince Templars/PAL that they are not paying attention to the game so the surprise of the attack is greater.

(or not).

[Swiss Pauli]

Not, as it turns out: their units are still on the same tile.

[Zeviz]

Sooooo's message sounds good. It would also be good to talk about plans for post-Templar attack on PAL, just to make them think in those terms instead of worrying about us.