Imperio: Diplomacy Thread #2

[darrelljs]

The reason I favor giving Imperio a chance, is because I don't understand why they would sign peace and then not honor the agreement. Having peace for 10 turns and then being free of the rest of the agreement is probably the best possible outcome for us, why would they sign peace and then give us a reason to ignore it? It just doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they shouldn't have signed peace with us after they screwed us over.

Are you saying they have some nefarious plan we haven't divined yet?

I think they just got greedy, plain and simple. We appeared to cave in and they haven't realized that it wasn't out of fear, but expediency. They will learn .

Darrell

[Kodii]

Are we even sure they realize they broke the terms of our treaty? I wouldn't be surprised if they automatically discounted that part of the agreement when they traded for Nationalism with PAL. Of course, that doesn't stop us from using it against them.

[MyOtherCar]

The only thing I can think of, is that Imperio will give us gunpowder when the 10 turn peace expires: "Oops, we forgot! But here it is now."

[MyOtherCar]

Of course, a more scientific running of numbers would be better, if possible...

What? About drafting Maces now or Oromo's later? Or about the 100 % science rate? (We can research in 3 turns at 90%).

[sooooo]

I think you're right Kodii and we should do our best to make them think that they didn't break the treaty.

[regoarrarr]

I can't decide if I'm more giddy about beating PAL to the Taj or just whuppin on Imperio with swarms of drafted Oromos

[Swiss Pauli]

The reason I favor giving Imperio a chance, is because I don't understand why they would sign peace and then not honor the agreement. Having peace for 10 turns and then being free of the rest of the agreement is probably the best possible outcome for us, why would they sign peace and then give us a reason to ignore it? It just doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they shouldn't have signed peace with us after they screwed us over.

The thing is that, as a team, we're looking for the merest pretext to call the agreement invalid, having got what we desperately needed (peace). Imperio could be blocked by their deal with PAL, or they could simply be thinking 'RB knew that we already had Nationalism when they aceepted the deal, so that clause simply doesn't apply any more'.

Their strategic mistake is in not being 'generous' when they can afford to be. They've also failed to explain their reasons for not handing over Guns (which would have opened up dialogue), nor have they proposed an alternative ('Ok, you keep Jerusalem', or 'Have a more valuable tech instead'.

[kjara]

I have to agree, them just deciding that they didn't need to talk about gunpower when not handing it over is a valid pretex. I have to wonder if they are just trying to see how much they can get or just didn't think that they needed to worry about it anymore. I would think that if it was just that they didn't think they owed it, they would have said something though. However, if its just to see how much they can get, I really have to wonder why they are doing infrastructure builds rather than troop builds, but they don't exactly seem that organized.

[T-hawk]

I think they thought of Nationalism-for-Gunpowder as a concession on our part, since the beaker count would favor them. Both teams are intentionally misinterpreting that clause - we say it was a promise to supply Gunpowder, they think it was a concession that is now moot.

Either way, this peace treaty is worth slightly less than the paper it isn't written on.

[sooooo]

Imperio have a spare gold for trade. Do we want to offer them wines for it?

[sooooo]

Hmm, I was thinking about the Ultimate Treachery.

We capture Jerusalem and gift it to Imperio, after having settled a city that puts cultural pressure onto it. Imperio then enter the war and attack a templar city. Once they have captured a city or maybe before, we declare war on them and smash their stack (which hopefully is healing in the revolting city they just captured), also recaptuing Jerusalem and sending another stack into the Imperio heartland. Only unpredictable thing is which city Imperio attack, but probably it will be constantinople. We could even find a pretext to ask them.

[MyOtherCar]

Either way, this peace treaty is worth slightly less than the paper it isn't written on.

But then, we haven't researched Paper yet.

[Swiss Pauli]

Hmm, I was thinking about the Ultimate Treachery.

We capture Jerusalem and gift it to Imperio, after having settled a city that puts cultural pressure onto it. Imperio then enter the war and attack a templar city. Once they have captured a city or maybe before, we declare war on them and smash their stack (which hopefully is healing in the revolting city they just captured), also recaptuing Jerusalem and sending another stack into the Imperio heartland. Only unpredictable thing is which city Imperio attack, but probably it will be constantinople. We could even find a pretext to ask them.

Unless the warmongers/MP players can advise differently, I don't see another solution that would give us the chance to surprise Imperio's mega-stack. If we keep Jerusalem, we lose the element of surprise, and get stuck in another stalemate as in those circumstances I'd expect them to hold off attacking Templars.

I think the only chance we would have to surprise them would be at Constantinople, assuming Templar's culture is out of the way.

[sunrise089]

Unless the warmongers/MP players can advise differently, I don't see another solution that would give us the chance to surprise Imperio's mega-stack. If we keep Jerusalem, we lose the element of surprise, and get stuck in another stalemate as in those circumstances I'd expect them to hold off attacking Templars.

I think the only chance we would have to surprise them would be at Constantinople, assuming Templar's culture is out of the way.

You're right Swiss, certainly the best way to kill their current big stack is to catch it healing or in neutral territory, or in a city that hasn't popped borders yet.

Even if we miss this opportunity though it isn't the end of the world. Since city elimination isn't on it isn't too painful for us or Imperio to loose a single border city. So, pre-railroads, we can either throw multiple stacks at Imperio at once or move our units around enough where it isn't apparent where we're going to strike. With our superior production we can probably win even if Imperio kills one of our armies.

[sooooo]

Any opinions on a gold for wines trade with imperio? It would allow us to double-draft some cities.