Imperio: Diplomacy Thread #2

[sunrise089]

Ruff is right - we should just dial research up late in the turn...that was the unanimous vote anyways.

[Dreylin]

Are we going to give Imperio another chance to hand over Gunpowder, or just accept the excuse they've given us for turning on them?

They logged in this morning, maybe the offered us Gunpowder? (yeah, right)

[Sullla]

Imperio is definitely not going to give us Gunpowder. We all predicted that, and they turned down our request in-game. They're doing everything possible to play us for chumps, thinking they can get us to fight Templars' military, kill all their units, and then tamely hand over all our city captures to them. We would be guilty of insane stupidity if we actually followed through with their terms.

I say definitely turn up research on Gunpowder to 100% (or 90%, whatever we agreed was the right proportion) at the end of this turn, unless we see Imperio gift us the tech out of the blue.... which is not going to happen. The real question is whether we adopt Nationhood civic on this turn and start drafting immediately, or wait 3t to research Gunpowder? I'm probably in favor of waiting myself. We're going to do those drafts anyway, and might as well have the units coming out of our cities be Oromos and not maces. And of course, we're already past our 24 hour window and can't draft on this turn.

Of course, a more scientific running of numbers would be better, if possible...

[dsplaisted]

I would prefer we give Imperio a chance by emailing them and saying if they don't give us gunpowder this turn we won't give them Jerusalem. Apparently that's just me though

In game turns it probably is better for us if the peace agreement is null and void.

[regoarrarr]

I say we ignore Imperio, attack all of Templars cities as fast as possible, and then just see where things go.

If Imperio ever says anything, we just tell them something like "Oh, well when you broke the agreement by not giving us Gunpowder, we figured the whole thing was void"

[Swiss Pauli]

I would prefer we give Imperio a chance by emailing them and saying if they don't give us gunpowder this turn we won't give them Jerusalem. Apparently that's just me though

In game turns it probably is better for us if the peace agreement is null and void.

No, there's two of us dissenters

[sooooo]

But doesn't that just give them extra information for little benefit? I doubt imperio will give us gunpowder and our threats to them will clue them up that we are not happy.

[mostly-harmless]

And again, I am with soooooo.
Imperio broke the deal by not accepting Gunpowder. Sending an ultimatum just results in them gifting us Gunpowder hurriedly and leaving us with in the middle of Bloodbath without targets.
No ultimatum, no message to them. They are not stupid and must know what they wrote in their treaty (this is so they can't say, uh that guy who is not the turnplayer logged in and turned down the trade.)

If we see Imperio logging in again this turn, we obviously have to check whether they gift us Gunpowder. Then we have to accept. (not to a GP vs. Drama trade, though).

mh

[darrelljs]

Yeah, I'm also totally with Sulla/sooooo on this one. They had their chance to honor the deal; they didn't. Let's wait until Gunpowder comes in, switch to Nationhood, and let sunrise do his thing.

Darrell

[Kylearan]

Yep, let's go for gunpowder ourselves full steam, then switch to Nationhood, and let's break the NAP with Imperio whenever we feel we are ready to attack them. And don't say anything about gunpowder/Jerusalem - all this was one broken agreement too much, even for me, so even I say the time for Diplomacy with Imperio is over.

[Dreylin]

I have to say that I fall somewhere between the two camps; I want to try to get Gunpowder from them so we don't have to research it ourselves, but I also don't want to give them any more information about the consequences.

I think that the e-mail we sent has accomplished most of that, and that any more we send will just be too obvious.

TBH though, Imperio have no-one to blame but themselves; they effectively voided the agreement they sent us - before we'd even signed it! Maybe that was their plan, but I suspect they are expecting us to fulfill our side ... if they are, more fool them.

[ruff_hi]

Imperio are in deep doo-doo if they managed to get Kylearan offside.

Edit - no email to Imperio. They have made their decision. They must live with it ... as must Templars.

[dsplaisted]

The reason I favor giving Imperio a chance, is because I don't understand why they would sign peace and then not honor the agreement. Having peace for 10 turns and then being free of the rest of the agreement is probably the best possible outcome for us, why would they sign peace and then give us a reason to ignore it? It just doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they shouldn't have signed peace with us after they screwed us over.

[mostly-harmless]

The Apo Palace Peace vote came up earlier in a discussion.
This might actually be our ticket to capture Constantinople right away.
Templars hold 50 votes, PAL hold 12 or so with Rabbits having another couple.
We tell Imperio we don't want to take the defy-happy-hit and therefore have to get enough votes ourselves to veto.
Currently 48 votes are necessary to stop the war.
If we take just Jerusalem (which takes longer to take than Const anyway) we risk being forced into peace. If we quickly take Const with its 18 votes (9 for us only) we might be better positioned to fight off a forced peace.
Obviously this is rubbish to some extent, but then Imperio is serving us rubbish as justification for their treaty as well.

mh

[sunrise089]

The reason I favor giving Imperio a chance, is because I don't understand why they would sign peace and then not honor the agreement. Having peace for 10 turns and then being free of the rest of the agreement is probably the best possible outcome for us, why would they sign peace and then give us a reason to ignore it? It just doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they shouldn't have signed peace with us after they screwed us over.

Frankly it doesn't matter why they wouldn't honor it, they didn't. Unless they change course and gift us Gunpowder this turn they are in breach. I don't think there is any point of further discussion, but just to reiterate this will be a situation where we keep the moral high ground AND get what we want.