Banana: Diplomacy Thread #2

[regoarrarr]

If population = power, why would we want to give up the city? I mean I was happy to give it up when it was meant as a staging area for a boating of The Warning.

But since Banana managed to do that without Acre, I'd just as soon keep it then have it in the hands of another power, even one that is (for now) friendly to us.

[sooooo]

I'm not keen on keeping Acre. We're running out of money here and it will be 10 maintenence when it is out of resistance, plus the increase in the no. of cities cost for the other cities, plus the civic upkeep cost. The city has just 1 food that is easily pillagable when we fight PAL and the city has no tile improvements. I think if we can offload it to banana then we should.

[timmy827]

Oromos are probably overkill for a low priority city like Acre. 1 longbow, 1 pike, and 1 crossbow would be a fine garrison until cavalry or rifles. Remember, even a crossbow (and Banana's are protective!) is about strength 9 versus strength 7.2 for a Cuirassier, and that's about as favorable of a battle as you can get. I say let PAL take the city if they burn 6 Cuirassieres to do so .

Amphibious 50% penalty is a bonus to the defender (like everything else except Combat promos on the attacker) so sunrise's example is really 13.2 (assuming c1 cur) vs ~12. Not saying we need to garrison it more heavily, just an FYI to keep in mind as we start to plan and plan against amphibious attacks.

[sunrise089]

Amphibious 50% penalty is a bonus to the defender (like everything else except Combat promos on the attacker) so sunrise's example is really 13.2 (assuming c1 cur) vs ~12. Not saying we need to garrison it more heavily, just an FYI to keep in mind as we start to plan and plan against amphibious attacks.

Thanks Timmy. I've never really been able to figure out this system, so I always treat everything as a bonus applied to the unit with the promotion. My hope is the math will end up with roughly correct outcomes, but I certainly appreciate the correct numbers from players who have mastered the system.

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we should offer Acre, but not be surprised nor offended if Donovan turns it down.

[Kodii]

I think we should offer Acre, but not be surprised nor offended if Donovan turns it down.

We already offered Acre and he already turned it down.

[Swiss Pauli]

Yeah, but we need to explain why we're offering it to him. As they say, it can't hurt to ask.

[timmy827]

Thanks Timmy. I've never really been able to figure out this system, so I always treat everything as a bonus applied to the unit with the promotion. My hope is the math will end up with roughly correct outcomes, but I certainly appreciate the correct numbers from players who have mastered the system.

It's really not that complicated (although not intuitive).
Attacker strength = base strengh + combat promotions bonus.
Defender modifier is sum of all other modifiers (including fortify, river/amphibious, terrain defense, CG, anti-unit abilities/promotions on either unit).

Also, if the defender net modifier is negative (say a CR3 unit attacks a fortified no-promotion unit, for net -50%), the defenders strength is modified by -1/3rd (100/150) rather than -1/2. Otherwise you could have silliness like a CR2 trebuchet dropping an unpromoted mech infantry to 0 strength and winning automatically

[mostly-harmless]

Acres contribution towards maintenance is not really an issue. We will have the same problem with all cities we capture next.

I would be happy to gift Acre to Banana, but if they don't want it, I think the city is worth keeping.

It has a netted fish already, two grassland mines and a workshop and potential for more improvements. At least as good as the city we want to put west of it or the fishing village we will put north of Chichen Itza.

The benefit for Banana on the other hand is what exactly? It will tie up forces to defend against boating and with no tactical flexibility at all. Plus the place will have to steal food from Omni Point for a long time, as Banana will not get a border pop there for ages to work the free fish. And the land tiles have so much overlap with our cities.

mh

[shadyforce]

If I were in PAL's boots now, I would have no choice but to cancel the proposed invasion of Banana and do everything in my power to get Banana on my side against RB. I have no idea how likely they are to do that, but they could well appeal to Donovan's desire to try and win the game (as alluded to in his posts in the public diplomacy thread). We and PAL are both convinced that RB are likely to win the game if the status quo continues. If Banana can be convinced of this as well then he may turn on us. Maybe he will be happy to play a runner up to our win at the expense of PAL, but maybe he won't be.

[regoarrarr]

Agreed that maintenance is not an issue. It may cost 10 gpt and increase our numCities maintenance by another 2 gpt or so

But it will also work 2 3cpt coast tiles, the city center, plus 2 trade routes (at least 1gpt), so that's 9gpt right there, only a negative of 3gpt.

And that will only be for a few turns. As it grows, that's more commerce, and the FP will be up soon.

I was fine with offering it to him, but he turned it down. I see no need to continue to offer it to him

[sooooo]

That screenshot from banana is strange. They only have 2 turns left of golden age but have made little progress into chemistry. He's running 40% on the espionage slider for some unknown reason.

[sooooo]

Well, I sent the email without the Acre paragraph.

[mostly-harmless]

Weird, Banana still runs the espionage slider.
And what's up with those two forts in his southern desert? Looks like a awful waste of worker turns.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Suggested message:

Hi Banana,
are you okay, if we use your accidentally gifted Galleon at Acre in our current war with Imperio? It could help us greatly to bring a sooner end to the conflict.

Could you give us a hint on the garrison of Alexandria and Akethaten, please?

Furthermore, what is up with the huge espionage point spending? And what is your ETA for Chemistry?

Thanks.
TRB

mh