Cloak & Dagger

[sunrise089]

Originally posted by Kylearan
Hi,


I seem to remember that if you acquire new tiles (by border expansion, for example), they register for score only after 20 turns, i.e. you have to keep those tiles for 20 turns for them to affect score. My memory could be wrong on this, though...

-Kylearan

This is correct. It's one of the few mechanics especially crafted for MP play. It's there to make sure no team dominates the land score by settling multiple undefended culture bombs on the last turn when they can no longer be attacked.

[mostly-harmless]

So, does anyone know how it is calculated exactly?

mh

[sooooo]

The Templars' score has increased to 64 halfway through the turn. Getting something from a hut I assume?

[mostly-harmless]

That seems correct.

I still try to make sense of the land points awarded.
We got 12 points for owning 9 tiles for 20 turns. Will have to run more tests here.

Furthermore I noticed that the exact amount of land tiles on the map is shown when hovering over the score. It is 1454tiles for this game. Domination is achieved when owning 931 tiles.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Alright,
I will continue the analysis under a few assumptions.
It seems that the points awarded for owning land tiles for 20 turns are linked by a factor to the overall land tiles available.
For our particular map we got 1454 landtiles in the world. That somehow leads to a factor of 1.333. So for our 9 tiles from the inner circle, that we owned for the last 20 turns (we moved the settler one turn, hence the delay) we got awarded 12 points in the land category on turn 21.

Furthermore I will assume that an increase in pop will give 4 points, unless it is clear from other sources, that it is not the case.

So lets look again at Turn 20 and try to make some sense of the point increases there:

PAL from 57 to 65.
Templars from 41 to 52.
Banana from 41 to 51.

PAL first. We know they settled in place so are entitled to a gain in land score on turn 20. Their increase of 8 points implies 6 land tiles in their initial 3x3 square. A coastal start or a freshwater lake.

Templars are the other civ that settled on the spot. An increase in 11 points suggests 8 landtiles in the 3x3 square. Another coastal start or just an inland lake. We already knew that but are happy the recent evidence confirms it.

Now Banana. They tried to misguide our analysts by making a big jump in points on the same turn as the other two civs. However we know only two civs settled in place, so Banana is not yet eligible for land points. Their increase in points (10) is accounted for by growing one size (now size 3) and gaining a tech!

Here is the demo screen from Turn 20.

Of interest is the food production of 13fpt. That is for a size 3 city 7fpt in excess. Amazing potential for whipping. Either for Banana or PAL.
Furthermore we see an overall increase in soldier points of all rivals from 42000 (turn18) to 54000 (turn20). We saw only one tech gained in that period, by Banana. Keep in mind that an increase from size 2 to 3 does not give you soldier points. So we are looking at a few warriors being built (possibly an archer as well by now?) and a high ranking military relevant tech gained by Banana.
Now what would you research with a city spot that gives you only 6 land tiles to work but plenty of seafood? First of all Fishing, which is cheap and is most likely what they got in turn 6. Then churning out workboats and going for an expensive second tech, finally ready on turn 20 (Banana being China start the game with Mining). I will stick my somewhat questionable reputation as Minister of Truth on the prediction that Banana just landed Bronze Working.

So they align themselves with Imperio, which beelined BW right from the start and Rabbits, which got lucky and popped it.

Thats it for turn 20.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Analysis for Turn 21.

First of all the ingame points.
The following changes are observed:
RealmsBeyond 37 to 49
Templars 52 to 58 (and later in the turn to 64)
Rabbits 53 to 61
Banana 51 to 55
Imperio 37 to 53

Lets start with us.
We got a all land start so own 9 land tiles for 20 turns (moved the settler on the first turn). With the factor of 1.333 we get 12 points.

Templars received their land score last turn, so the increase in points is all tech. First of all they researched their 2nd tech. Expensive but nothing military relevant though.
The they go lucky and popped something from a hut. This time a military relevant tech, which I can see from having the screenshots of the demo screen before and after they went from 58 to 64. From the increase in soldier points they popped either one of: Sailing, Hunting, Mining, Animal Husbandry

The Rabbits received land score by 8 which equals 6 land tiles in their 3x3 square. Another coastal start.

Banana are finally confirmed as the initial "poor sods" with moving their settler into a spot that gives only 2 land tiles in the initial 3x3 square! (3 land tiles incl. city tile = 4 ingame points)

Imperio made quite a jump. 16 ingame points. We know from earlier analysis that there is one more civ out there that has no water tiles in their BFC. IMperio is that civ. So they get, like us, 12 points for the 9 initial land tiles. That leaves 4 more points which they gained from growing one size.
As Imperio did the same as we, with going worker first, their earlier pop growth means they got a better food tile to work. However, they have no worker tech available to improve food tiles at the moment. Their worker is probably busy mining copper!

Here is the demoscreen from after Templars popped their tech from a hut:


Slight increase in soldier points accounted for by Templar popping a 2000sp tech from a hut and Imperio growing to size2.

Here is the Top5 cities list:


That is:
1. PAL
2. Banana
3. Templars
4.&5. Imperio & Rabbits
6. RB

Enjoy.

mh

[Zeviz]

Thanks for continuing this analysis.

I am glad we aren't on the same continent with Imperio.

[mostly-harmless]

We cannot be sure of that. We have 2 old world landmasses. But the game was created with 7 civs. So the initial split of 3-4 could now be either 3-3 or 2-4. In the first case we are on a continent with Templars and either PAL or Rabbits. In the second case we are on a continent with Templars, either PAL or Rabbits and one more civ.

The second case also means that the other continent is shared only by 2 civs.

mh

[Sullla]

That's true, but this WAS a customized map. If the map creator left a 4/2 split in number of civs on each island... well, let's just say that the scenario design would leave a lot to be desired. A lot.

One other question:

As Imperio did the same as we, with going worker first, their earlier pop growth means they got a better food tile to work. However, they have no worker tech available to improve food tiles at the moment. Their worker is probably busy mining copper!

How is this even possible? We worked a 3 food tile (grassland cows) every turn not building a worker. There are no unimproved tiles that produce 4 food - right?

Oh wait - Imperio is Expansive. That means they built the worker 25% faster, thus had a few extra turns to grow to size 2. Whew! Worried for a moment there.

I do think that a lot of the other starting positions were better than ours. Not popping any techs from huts hasn't exactly helped either... Of course, if we turn out to have copper in the starting ring, any such complaints would instantly disappear.

[mostly-harmless]

You are of course right, it was their expansive trait, that let them finish their worker earlier and get the growth earlier.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Can anyone make sense of this thread?

http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=178450

mh

[sooooo]

Originally posted by mostly-harmless
Can anyone make sense of this thread?

http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=178450

mh

They are just having fun, no real info there.

[sooooo]

Turn 22 demographics and top 5 cities:

[mostly-harmless]

Turn 22:
Thanks soooo for the info.
Not much news here. A few tiles reshuffled.
One warrior built or popped.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Turn23
Imperio gained a tech. (from the soldier points increase of 2000 I can say it is either Hunting or Animal Husbandry.
Since we know Imperio has a non-coastal start we can rule out Sailing.)

Templars have grown to size 3.
We have grown.
That explains the ingame scores.

Furthermore we have witnessed that Jerusalem (Templars capital) has popped its third ring due to the additional 5cpt from being a holy city. That gave them altogether 30 landtiles, leading that score.
The maximum landtiles for three rings is 37 (like for us).
So we can roughly estimate the shape of the coast Jerusalem is sitting on.
This is a first estimate of the Templars land surrounding Jerusalem.

x - city
o - landtiles within cultural borders
~ - watertiles within cultural borders
. - landtiles

..ooo
.ooooo
ooooooo
oooxooo
oooo~~~
.oo~~~
..oo~

For the records the demographics screen.


mh