Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[ruff_hi]

the take-aways for me from the top note are:

- 'we have copper - we are happy'
- 'raze barb city'

I'd just let them take the military action.

[Sullla]

They really think that this is a game about settling the New World continent? Craziness. Every Terra game I've ever played has been determined by events on the starting continent. By the time the other continent gets fully colonized, the game is 90% over. Their thought process is entirely backwards, IMO.

It's good that they're backing off and feel more confident with regards to us. Even better that the Templars are likely to raze the barb city. They probably think they're sitting pretty since they have copper and horses and we don't. (Which is partially true, but only for so long.) One thing we could do when we get iron is conceal that fact from Templars for as long as possible, letting them think they have an unbeatable military advantage. Even if we don't act on it, that would be to our benefit.

Also note that they have no idea if we've settled our third city as yet. No Cloak and Dagger department from them! On the other hand, we know what they're up to better than they do themselves.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Originally posted by Sullla
They really think that this is a game about settling the New World continent? Craziness. Every Terra game I've ever played has been determined by events on the starting continent. By the time the other continent gets fully colonized, the game is 90% over.

I agree. And that was the reason why I was against using the Terra map script for this game - the New World won't matter. But now that we see there are teams that think it does, and actually seem to revolve their game plan around getting to the New World, I find this very funny.

Regarding the question of whether to attack them in around 50 turns, and how we should act diplomatically until then, I'd like to quote Sirian: "What can wait, should wait". Let's expand more and see what happens in the meantime before deciding about war, and until then, act as we're interested in friendly relations. Once we see the need or opportunity to attack, there will be enough time to let relations deteriorate deliberately, if needed.

-Kylearan

[ruff_hi]

new email from Templars ...

Dear Ruff,

I have returned as Foreign Affairs Minister. Things are a bit more quiet now and I am well. I have settled in Antwerp. Thank you for your wishes when I was ill.

It has been 12 days since Wouter sent you our last message and 8 since you sent us a brief message to confirm that you received his letter. Since then, there has been no communication between us.

Perhaps you could get back to us soon about the proposed joint military operation in the south to remove the barbarian city. We cannot wait too long with that.

Communications with Imperio remain very difficult even though our diplomat Beta is doing his very best.

I also wish to inform you that we have established contact with PAL. We are discussing our foreign policy towards PAL. It seems to us that as neighboring teams, we would be stronger towards teams of the other island if we would coordinate our approaches a bit. That way we cannot be played out against one another. Also one of our teams might engage in a diplomatic transaction, such as an exchange of maps, that the other team considers wholly against their interests. That could in turn lead to misunderstanding. A bit of coordination with the aim of trying to reach a united approach where possible, but still respecting team sovereignty could help us avoid such difficulties. This could also be worth considering for our contacts to Imperio and other teams once we meet them. We would like to hear your ideas about this.

Please get back to us soon so that we might coordinate our joint military operation against the barbarian city.

Perhaps you are aware of it already, but we want to inform you of a barbarian to the north of your capitol. It is situated on a hill two tiles east of a hill with sheep and three tiles north of a little lake just within your borders, northeast side of your capital. We hope this info will be of use.

Best regards,

Sir Aidun
Foreign Affairs Minister of the Knights Templar

[sooooo]

It's a good point - we did forget about their proposal to raze the barb city.

We should send an email with the normal diplo mumbo jumbo: hi, thanks for the barb info, word to your mother etc.

And possibly this paragraph:

Regarding the barbarian city on your border: We do not have the troops at this present moment, but appreciate the proposal. If you want to raze it immediately then feel free to and keep the money for yourselves. Alternatively you can wait a bit until we train some troops for the job. We don't mind either way.

I think we should keep our deals with PAL secret. Possibly even lie (!) and deny having any.

[Sullla]

Yes, I agree that we should send some sort of reply. Especially thank them about revealing the barb city north of our capital. (Too bad we'll have to raze it, as it's one off the coast! First sword or axe out of Airstrip One can go take care of it.)

- Regarding the barb city, I would tell them that we are in the middle of other projects at the moment, but that we plan to attack it in the near future. (As soon as we connect copper or iron, but they don't have to know that...) Make some sort of nice-sounding pronouncement that we will both agree to alert the other if a barb spawns and leaves the city.

We should also reiterate that whoever captures the city first should raze it. I still think they'll get to it before we do, that's why.

- Imperio: we should state that we are having difficulty communicating with them as well. Should we mention that we are trying to negotiate a Non-Agression Pact with Imperio? I would lean towards keeping that hidden for now, but what does everyone else think?

- Definitely keep agreements with PAL secret. Just say that we are in contact with PAL and have found them to be friendly neighbors thus far. I don't think we have any desire of turning our deal with PAL into a three-way relationship.

- Should we tell them that we think Imperio might be going for an Oracle slingshot? It's the kind of thing that probably doesn't hurt us, and possibly makes us look generous. After all, they have the techs to go after the Oracle, and might even be thinking about it.

That's my inital reading, anyway. I hope we can get some different impressions from everyone before we make a reply.

[ruff_hi]

going to shot this reply off tonight and something fuller tomorrow or Wed.

Sir Aidun,

Totally forgot to reply. That is what happens when you go on vacation for your birthday. I've got a draft around here somewhere - will need to get RB Team sign off and then I will flick it your way. Part of that reply was about the Barb city in the South - feel free to engage your troops without waiting for us ... we'll have some units there shortly but don't wait for us. And as you are taking the risk, keep the gold from razing it.

I'll have a fully reply for you shortly.

Ruff

[ruff_hi]

Originally posted by Sullla
Especially thank them about revealing the barb city north of our capital. (Too bad we'll have to raze it, as it's one off the coast! First sword or axe out of Airstrip One can go take care of it.)

Templar Email
Perhaps you are aware of it already, but we want to inform you of a barbarian to the north of your capitol. It is situated on a hill two tiles east of a hill with sheep and three tiles north of a little lake just within your borders, northeast side of your capital. We hope this info will be of use.

I don't read their comment as a Barb city in the North, just a unit.

[mostly-harmless]

A few comment:
- I also read their barb warning to be about an unit. This is backed by the fact that we would see the barb cultural borders on the edge of our visible territory, and we don't. I would reply along the lines of "many thanks, strengthen mutual trust, will dispatch a unit shortly to tackle incursion"
- I am fine with leaving Barb city to them. I wouldn't even mind if they do not raze the city. It will be a heavy liability for them with all the jungle around and no iron working in yet. However we should not mention that "we cannot spare any troops for now". Rather say "we have no plans to attack the city in the next turns". Templars might wet themselves out of joy if we engage in a mutual military campaign. Before you know it, they want to come by for sleepover parties.
- Regarding policy towards Imperio & PAL: Well, we won't be lying in saying we have still difficulties establishing regular diplomatic contact with Imperio. No mention of the NAP. It is after all not signed anyway. I agree with keeping any agreements with PAL a secret. Mention that we are in contact with PAL and found them friendly, as Sullla mentioned. Ask Templars to be more specific regarding their joint diplomatic policies. I find it a bit ridiculous to ask for permission before trading maps.
- Mentioning the possible Oracle slingshot let us appear in a positive light, but we might be asked to back up that claim, revealing our C&D intel.

mh

[Sullla]

Originally posted by mostly-harmless - Mentioning the possible Oracle slingshot let us appear in a positive light, but we might be asked to back up that claim, revealing our C&D intel.

That can be explained pretty easily, I think:

- Imperio has marble
- Their GNP is really high, so they're probably researching towards something big
- They've already built Stonehenge

We don't have to reveal that we know they possess Priesthood, or anything like that.

[sunrise089]

I vote:

-Tell them about difficulty in contacting Imperio, tell them about Oracle slingshot risk.

-Do not even mention PAL - why reveal they were friendly to us in case they have not been so to Templars?

-Stall for time on the barb city (doesn't reveal lack of units but also doesn't turn down cooperation) by asking how many turns they would need to prepare units to attack.

-Of course thank them for spotting the barb unit for us.

[ruff_hi]

draft of longer email - I sent the quick one this morning.

Sir Aidun,

Good to have you back on deck. Not that talking to Wouter was a problem … errr … anyway …

Observers / Scouts
It would appear that your decision not to use scouts has paid off for you, given our recent scout losses. We noted the withdrawal of your units and the points that Wouter mentioned. Also, having some scouting units out seems like a good idea given the fog busting they are doing - thank you for the report of a barbarian unit to our North. Feel free to kill it (or not), one unit either way isn't going to worry us.

Barbarian City
As I noted in my short reply, we'll have some units heading that way shortly, but don't wait for us if you want to kill that city. Also, as you are taking the unit risk - feel free to keep the proceeds.

Border Agreement
Things here are not moving very fast at all, are they? However, given the speed of this game, we still have lots of time to discuss such an agreement. Team RB still feels that a tri-agreement would be the preferred Border Agreement as any bi-lateral agreement could be rendered void by third party actions.

The Other Continent
How is your contact with PAL going? Is it better or worse than your contact with Imperio? We have had very limited contact with PAL.

Oracle
One thing that I wanted to share with you - it is RB's feeling that Imperio are attempting some form of Oracle slingshot. They have marble, the required tech (we think), a propensity to built wonders and their current tech rate is very high. What are your views on this?

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[Sullla]

Two comments:

- I'm not sure it's a good idea to lie about our dealings with PAL. Seems like something that could be easily found out. Better to be more vague, or say nothing at all.

- Let's try to word things differently regarding the barb city. We don't *WANT* them to capture that city if at all possible. I'd rather us push for an agreement where we both agree to raze it (DMZ, contested border, yadda yadda). If they want to put a settler there later, make them spend the 10 turns of no-growth. No freebies for them.

[ruff_hi]

lie?? What lie? We have had very limited contact with PAL. Sure - in that time we have managed to arrange a tech swap but that only took 1 or 2 emails. Look at all the contact we have had with Templars by comparison. Hmmn - ok, maybe 'very' is stretching it a bit. How about 'limited contact'?

Was I saying they should keep the city ... oh, 'proceeds' - I meant the gold. I'll modify.

Barbarian City
As I noted in my short reply, we'll have some units heading that way shortly, but don't wait for us if you want to take and raze that city. Also, as you are taking the unit risk - feel free to keep the gold proceeds - it was a nice offer - but its only fair if you keep the gold.

[sooooo]

Email looks fine to me.