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  • And the more extensive reply:

    Hi Ruff,

    Aidun is currently unavailable due to illness so I'm currently overseeing his duties as our diplomatic liaison. There are a few points that need to be addressed:

    First off, you've no doubt noticed one of our Quechuas (Squire Herc) is moving very close to your borders. We're doing this because we need to cross to the opposite side of your road but want to avoid moving him directly next to your Worker further south -- we imagine you might perceive that to be a hostile move (certainly more so than moving closer to your border) and want to stress that our intentions are peaceful. The unit in question will move on to a less threatening position to the east as quickly as possible.

    As Aidun noted before, our military units are there for sentinel duties in defensive positions, which we deem necessary in the absence of any formal treaties between our teams and with your team having established your outpost so close to our capital. You asked why Quechuas rather than Scouts: on a continent this small and for a civ that doesn't start with Hunting, Scouts are of very limited value; for the Inca specifically Quechuas make for very good scouting units as well, so we haven't bothered building any Scouts. We hope to be able to withdraw these units in due time, but as you said yourself, more trust and understanding needs to be built between our teams first.

    Secondly, we noticed your Scout Tracy was attacked and has suffered damage. If there is a way we can provide cover again for that unit, we'd be happy to do so. Let us know if you need assistance there.

    Thirdly, since you pledged not to expand further in the contested region between our borders, we pledge to do the same for now. As you already surmised in an earlier message, we shall found our next city to our NE -- a Settler is currently en-route there -- and future expansions shall for the time being be further east to, as you say, give the border agreement a chance of success. But I think we can all agree that we need to work out a more permanent arrangement before it stifles either of our growth.

    We've seen your repeated posts in the public forum to try and get in touch with Imperio. Have you had any luck in this regard? We've heard very little from them as well, but we agree with you that working together with Imperio to establish a tri-lateral border treaty is important. In fact, we feel that it's in the interest of all three of us to work together as much as possible.

    Democracy Games are rarely won by a team acting on its own, it's usually an alliance that ends up deciding the outcome of the game. A lasting alliance between the three teams on our island with all of us working together on research would give us a very good chance of getting to the New World before the teams on the other island, which would of course give us a significant leg-up on them and increase the chances of all three of us to win the game. Our cooperation could extend to the New World itself as well and make sure we all get a fair share of it -- the longer we work together, the better we believe it will be for all three of us.

    That's long-term thinking though, the first hurdle to cross to get there will be to get in touch with Imperio and figure out a fair division of our lands between the three of us. We will be making a renewed effort to contact them very shortly (also depending on Aidun's availability) and keep you apprised of our progress.

    Wouter
    Interim Diplomatic Liaison of the Knights Templar

    Comment


    • I agree that working together with other teams is the key to success in a Demogame. What the Templars don't need to know is that our plan is to work with PAL and not them. Their belief that all three civs on our island can work together in peaceful harmony seems to fall somewhere between "idealistic" and "crack-smokin' nonsense" to me.

      I'll think about this and give a more detailed response a little later with some thoughts. For now, I think we should confirm receipt and tell them that we're going to have to discuss these issues as a team.

      I did enjoy watching them bend over backwards to avoid giving offense.

      Comment


      • Hi Wouter,

        Just a short reply to confirm that we got it. I'll pass it onto the team and seek some input.

        Ruff
        Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
        Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
        woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

        Comment


        • Templars just settled their 2nd city Constantinople 1N of the Horses grabbing Rice, 1 oasis, the Horses and (once revealed to them) the copper.

          As a side effect Tracey is now cut off from our lands.

          mh

          Comment


          • Judging by the tone of their message, they are very scared of our power and production graphs.

            So their "military biuldup" sounds like a response to what they persive as our military buildup.

            Comment


            • What this whole situation reminds me of is (to once again steal Sullla's parallel) Diplomacy.

              More specifically the ol' Western Triple (an alliance with England, France and Germany against the rest of Europe).

              This is usually a great deal....for England!

              And we are kind of in the England position in this game (in the corner away from the other continent).

              We'll have to monitor the diplomacy between us and our 2 continent-mates, but if we can play it right where we continue to talk about sticking together as a continent, to the point where we can get them to be the front lines in a war against the other continent, then we wait for just the right time to stab them in the back

              The other thing to keep in mind is that he who talks the most has a decided edge in diplomacy (both in big-D Diplomacy and in this game). By just keeping a friendly chatter going, we not only tend to be the power to be allied with, but we can plant our seeds (gently) of the direction we want each of the other countries to go.

              Just some thoughts...

              Comment


              • draft email - edited to include some response to their original email above (and thus now differs from the version in the Barb City thread)
                Greetings Templars:

                I'm sorry to hear about Aidun. Please pass on my concerns and wish him a speedy recovery.

                RB have been watching your units and accept that they are currently watching the RB movements. At the moment, it seems that this dual observation will continue. The RB team appreciate your pledge regarding not expanding in the contested region. I expect that you will have noticed the new Barbarian City that popped in the 'buffer' zone between RealmsBeyond and yourself. I've been asked to contact you regarding your intentions vis-à-vis said city. RealmsBeyond currently has no plans regarding this city - however, RB may send 1 or 2 archers down to the region to invite a suitable Barbarian target (as opposed to those units pillaging their way through our city squares).

                If RB was to put forth an eradication party, the city would be razed to avoid Templar - RB stress.

                What are the Templar's thoughts regarding this city?

                Regarding your comments about other games of this type - the RB team have some experience in this area and agree (in general) with your comments and find that communication seems to be the key. Thus our continued diplomatic efforts.

                Ruff
                Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team
                I've deliberately forgotten that they asked about Imperio
                Last edited by ruff_hi; September 8, 2008, 10:30.
                Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                Comment


                • They have noticed and dispatched the southernmost Quecha to investigate already.
                  I don't quite under stand the part of the draft which says "invite Barb targets ... units walking through our city)
                  In general I would not be so talkative regarding that barb city. We have more or less agreed that we will leave it to them to deal with, but saying so might come over as arrogant as the city is clearly in what they deem their area of influence. Also "threating" to raze the city might just spur them on to take it for themselves sooner.

                  As for the reply to their last eMail:
                  I think there is little to say from our side.
                  Congratulate them for settling Constantinople
                  We can mention that we are still in the early get to know pahse with Imperio.
                  And we can suggest that Templars starts to draw up a draft "Border Agreement" for negotiations, simply for them having to do something.
                  And of course the usual filler saying yadda, yadda, cooperation, great, yadda, yadda.
                  Templars made a big mistake for not having contacted PAL yet. They have no clue whatsoever what giant PAL will become in 10-20 turns when they have completed their land grab phase.

                  And btw. from the Cloak&Dagger dept: Templars have just researched Bronze Working.

                  mh

                  Comment


                  • re 'invite barb targets' ... I was trying to give our units a reason for being there and not trying to take the city. I was thinking that one of our units would be there to act as a barb magnet - guess I should say that.

                    And this is a problem with the written word - I mentioned 'raze', not as a threat but to raise the issue that this action (they raze the city) is what we would expect them to do given that they aren't settling in this direction.

                    Good point regarding yadda yadda yadda - need more of that.
                    Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                    Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                    woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                    Comment


                    • I certainly like the "invite barb attacks" line if it's made clear that keeps barbs from walking into our civ. It explains our observation party nicely, gives us a source of XP, and probably will reduce barb incursions.

                      Comment


                      • I would prefer a shorter and more clear statement on the Barb city:

                        The RB team appreciate your pledge regarding not expanding in the contested region. I expect that you will have noticed the new Barbarian City that popped in the 'buffer' zone between RealmsBeyond and yourself. I've been asked to contact you regarding your intentions vis-à-vis said city. Since the city is located in the "buffer zone", we are not planning to capture it in the foreseeable future, but we might send a couple units to absorb barbarian attacks likely to come from it.

                        EDIT: By "foreseeable future" I mean "then next 40 turns".

                        Comment


                        • I think naming that region down there a buffer zone is stretching things a bit, no?

                          mh

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mostly-harmless
                            I think naming that region down there a buffer zone is stretching things a bit, no?

                            mh
                            I agree, but my assumption is that we want to attack them in about 50 turns, which means that we want to keep relations somewhat tense. (I would not backstub an ally, but if we let diplomatic situation deteriorate, war wouldn't be as unexpected.)

                            Comment


                            • they called it 'contested region between our borders' so a little stretch to 'buffer zone' is perfectly alright. Also, it helps to imply a no-mans land ... or a DMZ. Which is just what we want isn't it?
                              Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                              Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                              woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Zeviz

                                I agree, but my assumption is that we want to attack them in about 50 turns, which means that we want to keep relations somewhat tense. (I would not backstub an ally, but if we let diplomatic situation deteriorate, war wouldn't be as unexpected.)
                                I get the feeling the team is starting to diverge on this point. I see some posts referring to a deliberate effort to keep things tense, or at least encouraging us to take a firm hand. Other posts suggest relations are calming and the likelihood of military confrontation is going down. Do we want to generate some consensus on how friends we want relations to be?

                                Comment

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