Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[mostly-harmless]

I am also a bit stunned by the plan to attack Templars in around 50 turns. Should not war be the last resort if certain matters can't be resolved by other means?

We don't have to be best buddies with them, but between that and pre-planned early war is quite a wide spectrum. Relations should be re-assessed constantly (location of iron, Templars response to Red Dot, Barb City situation, possible 3rd Templar city) If any of these issues asks for military action to keep us on a way forward in that game, I am among the first line
Until then, there is plenty of opportunity to keep on peacefully.

Of course I personally do not like that forward sentry next to our road at all. No, no. That guy has to go away fast if relations are to be improved.

mh

[sooooo]

I like Ruff's original message but with the "If RB was to put forth an eradication party, the city would be razed to avoid Templar - RB stress." line taken out and some of m-h's diplo-speak like congratulations on settling constantinople etc.

[sunrise089]

@M-H - I'm actually in the pro-attack crowd, since I don't see us winning with only our land.

That said, I don't think we have to decide to attack or not quite yet. We do however need to decide our diplo posture - intentional antagonism for a more justifiable attack later or lulling diplomacy segueing into full-on backstabbing.

[Zeviz]

The reason I am suggesting a more confrontational approach is that I am 100% against backstubbing. However, I agree that we need more land than Templars are willing to give us peacefully, so letting diplomacy deteriorate sounds like the best compromise.

However, I have no specific desire for war, so if we can push Templars into letting us have half a continent and a religion, we can peacefully coexist while they plod along RPing in their 3 CC empire.

[sooooo]

I don't really think we have much bargaining power until we find some metal so would prefer to keep relations cordial. Longer term I think we should adopt a wait-and-see policy regarding the templars. I don't think that being nice to them now morally commits us to being nice to them the whole game.

[ruff_hi]

latest draft. We really need to send this along as the Barb City issue is something that they could decide soon.

Greetings Templars:

I'm sorry to hear about Aidun. Please pass on my concerns and wish him a speedy recovery. Also, RB would like to congratulate Templars on founding Constantinople.

The RB have been watching your units and accept that they are currently watching the RB movements. At the moment, it seems that this dual observation will continue. Naturally, the RB team would prefer non-military observers (scouts) instead of the archer killers currently utilized.

The RB team appreciate your pledge regarding not expanding in the contested region. I expect that you will have noticed the new Barbarian City that popped in the 'buffer zone' between RB and yourself. I've been asked to contact you regarding your intentions vis-à-vis said city. Since the city is located in this zone, we are not planning to capture it in the foreseeable future, but we might send a unit (maybe 2) to absorb barbarian incursions likely to originate from it.

What are the Templar's thoughts regarding this city?

With regards to the Border Agreement - what sort of agreement did you have in mind? We would like to start the process of discussing such an agreement but the RB Team feels that Impario should be included. We have had very limited success in contacting them - have you had any?

Personally, given the difficulty we are having communicating with Impario, maybe an agreement to split the continent between the two of us is more to your liking?

Wouter - I value your comments about other games of this type - the RB team have some experience in this area and agree (in general) with your comments and find that communication seems to be the key. Thus our continued diplomatic efforts.

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[mostly-harmless]

Team is called Imperio.
And I would get rid of the suggestion to split between just the two of us.

mh

[Sullla]

I wouldn't, actually. I'm curious to see what the Templars would say in response to that kind of proposal. If they would be interested, it could even be worth thinking about (especially since we think Imperio has it together, while the Templar... don't.)

Agree though that we need to send this message pretty soon.

[ruff_hi]

thx for the name correction. I didn't say a split between us was to our liking - am I being too clever here?

[mostly-harmless]

This is assuming Templars and Imperio do not speak to each other yet.

mh

[Zeviz]

I like this version.

And you do make your suggestion vaguely enough to protest our innocense if the email gets forwarded to Imperio.

[ruff_hi]

email as above sent.

[sooooo]

I like this draft, you're doing a good job Ruff.

[ruff_hi]

GPS reply ...

Hi Ruff,

Just letting you know we received your message and will be discussing it internally. One of us (in Aidun's absence we don't have a designated Foreign Affairs Minister) will get back to you with our response shortly.

Wouter

Thx sooooo.

[sooooo]

Okey Dokey, here's the reply:

Hi Ruff,

Thank you for your best wishes for Aidun, they have been passed on. We too feel that communication between our teams is key to maintaining a good relationship. On that note, there are once again a number of issues to address.


Observers and scouts
Regarding your concerns about our military observers, we feel that because a combination of factors we can now alleviate those by moving them further from your borders. These factors are:

(1) Our mutual agreement to not expand in the contested border region;
(2) The added security that immediate access to Constantinople's strategic resources now provides us;
(3) The fact that Jerusalem's borders will expand in two turns which will give us comparable line of sight to what the southern Quechua sentinels provided without the military threat that comes with them.

We may still maintain a military presence in the extreme south (around the site of the Barbarian city) and north (in the area between Constantinople and your capital's south-eastern border), but should remain well clear of your current borders and road.

We would also like to continue to explore those parts of our landmass that we haven't fully mapped yet (i.e. north of your capital) so there may be continued contact between some of our Quechua scouts and your units and borders (mostly in the narrow passage between your capital's eastern border and the water that separates your land from Imperio's, but possibly also near your third city depending on exactly where and when you found(ed) it). This will only concern one or at most two of our units though and will be temporary, so we hope your team won't regard it as much of a threat.


Barbarian city
Yes, we did notice the Barbarian city and have already dispatched a Quechua to it to investigate, we found the city of Harappan there sitting on top of the Stone resource, currently size 1 and guarded by 2 Warriors.

Our feelings are that that city being in our buffer zone is a potential threat to our relationship and it's therefore best to destroy it. Its location right on top of the stone isn't optimal anyway, even if it wasn't in disputed territory we wouldn't want to capture and keep it, so razing it is the only option in our view. There might be some benefit in keeping it around for a while to milk it for experience points, but as noted the threat that one of us might take it without consulting the other could form a continuous dark cloud over our relationship, which in our opinion isn't worth it for a few XP points.

In the spirit of building trust between our teams, we would like to propose a joint military operation to attack and destroy that city: with 1 or 2 of your units and 1 or 2 of ours taking the city would be a piece of cake. The spoils of war resulting from the capture could be shared equally between our teams, with the provision that if one of us loses more units than the other that should be compensated for in the distribution (perhaps a 33-67 split would be the simplest way to settle that? A small, undeveloped city like that isn't likely to either yield much gold or require much sacrifice to eliminate anyway).


Imperio, Border Agreement and beyond
It seems we're in agreement that at least a three-way border agreement and hopefully also other three-way treaties, especially a joint research plan, is the ideal situation for us all. As stated before, we feel it is critical, and in all three teams' best interests, that we work together to reach the New World as soon as possible. To that end we would like to share with you the correspondence we recently sent to Imperio (via PM on Apolyton to X_MiTH_X), which I added to the bottom of this message. They responded to this very promptly that they were discussing it -- a marked improvement over previous attempts to communicate. We will inform you of their full response when we get it.

As noted, we very strongly prefer to work out a three-way alliance between our teams, but should that not work out for whatever reason (whether due to poor communications or unwillingness on Imperio's part), we would be more than happy to work out an agreement without them. If it comes down to a two-way alliance we would certainly prefer establishing one with your team rather than with Imperio.

Wouter
Interim Diplomatic Liaison of the Knights Templar

And the message they sent to Imperio:

Private message to X_MiTH_X, sent yesterday afternoon (EST):

X_MiTH_X of Imperio

Greetings from the Templars. It has been a long time since we have
contacted you.

As both our nations, along with Realms Beyond, continue to grow, the opportunities for misunderstanding and conflict grow as well. To this end, we feel it is in our mutual interests to maintain a more regular dialogue regarding border arrangements, and possible tech and resource trading opportunities.

We have presented to Realms Beyond the concept of a 3-way co-operative agreement to govern ourselves. As this is a New World map. and given that there is another continent of civilizations that we are basically competing with to reach and colonize the new world, we think it best if we co-operate fully to ensure that we are the civilizations that get there first.

If we spend time and energy not co-operating, let alone fighting over territory on this continent, we will essentially be left behind by the other civs. To that end, we are proposing a joint tech research plan that gets us - us being Imperio, RB, and the Templars - to the New World as soon as possible.

I trust you can see the benefit in such an arrangement, and look forward to discussing it further with you or representatives from your team.

Regards, Beta of the Templars