Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[mostly-harmless]

Rabbits popped BW from a hut (on turn 17).

The number of techs PAL stated is consistent with what we know, so no bluffing there.
Their research order as far as we can tell was:
T6 - Fishing, followed by a quick workboat
T12 - Mining
T18 - popped from a hut (that is certain) Mysticism (that is guessed, but it is the only tech that does not fit into their research path)
T24 - Bronze Working
T33 - Animal Husbandry
T39 - Pottery or Masonry
T46 - Masonry or Pottery

Looking at their techs, I would say it is safe to assume they have already whipped out a worker or two. Masonry makes sense as they might have marble or stone around and they are industrious. So we might see the odd wonder from PAL soon.

mh

[Zeviz]

Can we send some counter-offer to them soon? It would be good to show that we aren't the kind of team that takes a week to respond to an email.

It sounds like most popular counter-offer is Archery + IW for Alphabet, without any plans to trade for Writing.

[sooooo]

I forgot that we need writing to make the trade. We should probably just explain the situation, that we would like to make a trade but it will take a while since we need to research fishing, pottery, iron working and writing. It would be in their interest that they don't wait for us to research sailing too! We can offer them archery in addition to IW for alphabet.

[ruff_hi]

draft email to PAL ready for comments

whiplash,

The team has discussed your trade offer and wishes to suggest a counter offer ... mainly because to be in a position to accept your alphabet tech, we would need to research writing. We looked at the techs both teams would be required research for the Initial Offer and they were equal in beakers (thus approximately equal in research turns). However, for us to trade for alphabet, we would have to research writing.

Hence our counter offer:

Initial Offer
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Counter Offer
Archery(80) + Agriculture(60) <==> Writing (120)
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Note that the costs in brackets are the base beaker costs found in the XML file. This suggestion is slightly to your advantage (20 base beakers) but we would be willing to write that off to 'goodwill'.

Comments / Suggestions / Feedback?

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[sooooo]

Looks good. I wouldn't include that last sentence though, it is obvious from the beakers who has the advantage and saying we'll write it off could come across as patronising.

I would mention that this counter-offer saves time before we both get the techs we want, that's the main advantage to both teams.

[ruff_hi]

revised following sooooo feedback ...

whiplash,

The team has discussed your trade offer and wishes to suggest a counter offer. We looked at the techs both teams would be required research for the initial offer and they were equal in beakers (thus approximately equal in research turns). However, for us to trade for alphabet, we would have to research writing. Thus we are making this counter offer to reduce the game time required before the initial offer was available.

Initial Offer
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Counter Offer
Archery(80) + Agriculture(60) <==> Writing (120)
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Note that the costs in brackets are the base beaker costs found in the XML file.

Comments / Suggestions / Feedback?

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[Sullla]

Guys - that initial trade offer won't work. PAL already has Agriculture; as Egypt, it is one of their two starting techs (along with Wheel). We're going to look silly if we suggest trading them one of their starting techs.

I say we just explain the situation. We'd like to made their suggested trade, but it will take us some time to research the techs. Would they be willing to accept Archery instead of Sailing in order to make the deal sooner, possibly with an agreement that the next trade goes in their favor?

[ruff_hi]

that still will leave us having to also research writing ... and thus delay the trade. How about we trade ...

Archer + IW + Sailing <==> Writing + Alphabet

... and say that we own them some beakers for the next trade? Or I can just send the draft, deleting the agriculture tech and ask them what they think.

whiplash,

The team has discussed your trade offer and wishes to suggest a counter offer. We looked at the techs both teams would be required research for the initial offer and they were equal in beakers (thus approximately equal in research turns). However, for us to trade for alphabet, we would have to research writing. Thus we are making this counter offer to reduce the game time required before the initial offer was available.

Initial Offer
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Counter Offer
Archery(80) + a tech to be named later(?) <==> Writing (120)
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Note that the costs in brackets are the base beaker costs found in the XML file.

Comments / Suggestions / Feedback?

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[sooooo]

I prefer Sullla's idea of not actually making any offer and just stating the situation.

[Sullla]

I think Ruff's revised proposal looks good. Maybe another sentence explaining ourselves a little more fully, as sooooo brings up?

[ruff_hi]

revised again ...

whiplash,

Tech Trade Offer
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

The team has discussed your trade offer and have run into a technical difficulty. We looked at the techs both teams would be required research for the initial offer and they were equal in beakers (thus approximately equal in research turns). However, for us to trade for alphabet, we would have to research writing and thus delaying the tech trade that we are currently discussing (IW+S for A).

We have discussed it internally had couldn't find a satisfactory solution to this. The best we could come up with is shown below. Can you team suggest a better solution?

Best Option
Archery(80) + a tech to be named later(?) <==> Writing (120)
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

(Note that the costs in brackets are the base beaker costs found in the XML file)

Comments / Suggestions / Feedback?

Ruff
Your Voice to the Realms Beyond Team

[Zeviz]

This sounds good, but I'd suggest a slight revision:

Archery(80) + 40 beakers towards a later tech <==> Writing (120)

Your text implies that we are going to give them a whole extra tech, which would be a bit too generous. Aside from that, your message looks good.

[Sullla]

So... did we ever send that message? Did we ever get a response from PAL?

The diplomacy in this demogame always seems to be moving in slow motion.

[ruff_hi]

yes and no. As in 'yes we did send it', and 'no we didn't get a reply'. The turn counter at 48hrs matches the diplo counter.

[ruff_hi]

looks like our future tech trade is good to go ...

Archery(80) + a tech to be named later(?) <==> Writing (120)
IW + Sailing <==> Alphabet

Hi Realms Beyond,

PAL agree it is rather wasteful for you guys to research writing, and this should somehow be integrated into the trade.

We feel the best way to handle this situation is to roll the difference in bottles over to the technology you guys intend to get after iron working – Metal casting would be quite beneficial.

Could we possibly get a technology plan? Although this makes the trade rather complicated, it’s probably the fairest thing to do and has the greatest mutual benefit.

Also to keep you guys in the loop, we have met Maya and sent them a friendly welcoming message.

Thanks,

whiplash