Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[Zeviz]

I also like this message.

[sunrise089]

The PAL diplo front is going unbelievably well (at least until we find they sent the same emails to Imperio and Templars)...almost makes up for the terrible land.

[darrelljs]

Originally posted by sunrise089
(at least until we find they sent the same emails to Imperio and Templars)

Darrell

[Sullla]

Clever! But PAL still hasn't contacted Imperio or Templars yet.

[regoarrarr]

Originally posted by Sullla
Clever! But PAL still hasn't contacted Imperio or Templars yet.

How do we know that?

[ruff_hi]

I think Sullla means 'in-game' ... and via the F4 screen.

[mostly-harmless]

That is correct.
You can see no link between PAL and either Imperio or Templars.
mh

[ruff_hi]

email from PAL
Hi Ruff,

Cool, we both seem to be on the same wavelength.

Prearranged tech trading can be rather powerful; to keep both parties happy the trades would have to be of equal-ish bottle value. We have a considerable amount of jungle to our south so iron working would be much appreciated, but not as a straight swap for alphabet.

How about something like this:

Iron Working (286) + Sailing (143) = 429 = Alphabet (429)

This is an exact bottle match.

Feel free to propose something else; we have all the base technologies (hunting in 4) plus bronze working, masonry, pottery and AH. If you agree to such a deal we could start be-lining alphabet.

whiplash [PAL]

This looks good. I think we can just say YES to this. Lucky we decided to swap to fishing before pottery.

[regoarrarr]

What's the approximate turn counts for us to get Fishing , Pottery, Sailing and IW vs. PAL getting Writing and then Alphabet.

Do we want to ask them about OB once they get Writing, in case our WB can't reach the other civs.

[sooooo]

This is a positive response. The unfortunate thing is that we don't have sailing yet. Sailing is important (allows trade on rivers) but it would take extra time to research. We of course would want to research IW first. If it turns out that PAL will get alphabet before we would research IW and sailing (maybe the cloak&dagger dept. could help out here?), we could counter-offer them IW+Archery for Alphabet, arguing that having IW earlier could help them more than waiting for us to research sailing to be able to give it to them.

[ruff_hi]

Fishing , Pottery, Sailing, IW = base beakers of 420
Writing, Alphabet = base beakers of 420

So, assuming we are teching at the same rate, about the same. However, we would need writing to trade for alphabet. Writing is 120 (base beakers).

What techs do we have? I know that we have agriculture (60) over them - do we have some other techs that we can throw in to trade for writing?

[Zeviz]

We could do Archery(80) + Agriculture(60) for Writing (120), followed by Sailing + IW for Alphabet. The extra 20 points could be credited towards future trade (perhaps as percentage, because 20 points on ancient techs are worth a lot more than 20 points on classical techs).

We need to decide on this quickly, because if they take a quick detour to Archery or Agriculture, this trade will no longer be an option.

And I think getting Alphabet early is very good, because if Templars continue to hide from PAL, we'll get a chance to trade with them for some religious techs.

[Sullla]

PAL has already (foolishly!) given us the complete list of all techs they know. They have (in order):

Agriculture (initial tech)
The Wheel (initial tech)
Fishing (likely first research)
Mysticism
Mining
Bronze Working
Masonry
Pottery
Animal Husbandry

Currently researching Hunting, due in 4 turns.

Assuming they're not bluffing, that's a darned impressive list for this early in the game - I think PAL is the runaway civ of this game. In contrast, we have:

Mining (initial tech)
Hunting (initial tech)
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
The Wheel
Archery
Agriculture

Currently researching Fishing, due in 4 turns.

Hmmm... in order to make PAL's proposed tech trade, we will have to research Fishing, Sailing, Pottery, Writing, and Iron Working. PAL will (at a minimum) have to research Writing and Alphabet. They will indeed probably get there first. I would suggest that we tell them something along the lines that sooooo suggested. We would definitely like to make the deal, but Sailing is going to slow us down a bit, and if they would like to have IW at an earlier date, would they consider another option? Archery would indeed be a good option, as they lack that tech (and it's a dead end on the tree).

That's my take. Getting Alphabet is paramount so we can trade for some of Templars' cheap religious techs and skip researching them ourselves. There is no "WFYABTA" in this game!

[ruff_hi]

just remembered - didn't we think they popped a tech from a hut - and probably worked coastal tiles for extra beakers.

[Zeviz]

Are they the team that popped BW from a hut? (That would account for most of our difference.)

If we go with IW+Archery for Alphabet proposal, what would we do about Writing?