Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[sunrise089]

I am also in favor...can we not respond with anything concrete until we try and arrange trades with Imperio and Templars?

[sooooo]

But you cannot deny that Code of Laws would be very good for us. I am in favour of this CoL for Monarchy trade in the short term. Longer term I agree we have to be careful, but this is a gift horse we should not look in the mouth.

[Sullla]

I agree sooooo - just keep in mind we could potentially arrange the same deal with another civ. Maybe the Templars want to stock up on even more religions, who knows? We're pretty sure they're gunning for a cultural victory.

Since we still have about 7 more turns before we negotiate even the current deal, I don't see any rush to lock ourselves into another one that will last 15 or so turns beyond that. Let's at least listen to our neighbors first.

[Zeviz]

The CoL deal would actually be much better for PAL in terms of beaker cost, so they would be the ones getting a gifted horse, rather than us.

And the problem with "just one more deal" philosophy, especially if we like deals like this, where we pay more beakers than we get, is is that we'll be making "just one more deal" until PAL runs away with the game. (Remember that they are making deals with everbody, so they'll probably get 2 or 3 techs for selling CoL around.)

[Swiss Pauli]

I propose to send a stalling email to PAL on this trade, whilst reconfirming our commitment to the agreed trade. Wording to follow.

[Swiss Pauli]

Version 0.1

Hi whiplash,

Regarding your last message, TeamRB has not yet been able to reach agreement as to whether to proceed with a CoL-Monarchy trade. We need some more to time to resolve the situation one way or the other, and we'll give you feedback by turn XX.

I hope this doesn't inconvenience PAL unduly.

yours etc

I didn't think we could stall him indefinitely, and it shouldn't be forgotten that we owe PAL 40 beakers ASAP from the current trade when considering our response.

[Zeviz]

The text sounds good, but instead of "by turn XX", you should say "by the time you are done researching Alphabet".

You can also mention that the trade doesn't sound fair because they'll be getting a religion from being first to CoL (so it will be worse far less by the time we buy it), and CoL is a much cheaper tech than Monarchy to begin with.

[sooooo]

I'd rather trade for CoL from a team on the other continent than from a team on our own continent.

Our strategy has to be to take over our continent. Not necessarily soon, maybe later post-nationalism. That's the first objective and must be put ahead of worrying about PAL. We'd be best keeping the civs on our own continent as backwards as possible so they'll be easy to conquer in the future.

I reiterate that we should trade away monarchy to PAL, not Imperio or Templars. If PAL get strong then so be it. We can deal with them later. If we both get control of our continents then that's fine - we'll beat PAL because we're awesome. Once we meet Banana and Rabbits we can discuss trades with them. But we've gotta stop Imperio and Templars getting huge economic techs like Monarchy before they research it themselves. Trying to keep PAL more backwards is too long-termist and ignoring our most pressing goal.

[sunrise089]

@Sooooo (I never know how many "O's" to use)

Remember though PAL will trade to Imperio and Templars as well. So we won't actually be stopping them from getting techs. What we can do is make sure we offer the best techs to PAL. Why? Because without brokering PAL will have to get Imperio and Templars to research something to trade for their techs, and it won't be whatever we're offering.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Zeviz
The text sounds good, but instead of "by turn XX", you should say "by the time you are done researching Alphabet".

Email sent this afternoon.

[Zeviz]

Sooooo's argument sounds convincing, especially considering resource distribution on our continent. Should we accept PAL's proposed trade?

Here is a draft reply:

Hi Whiplash,

The main problem with proposed Monarchy for CoL trade is that you'll get to found a religion, taking the value of CoL down even farther. However, we agree that both techs are important to get quickly for both of our empires, so we'll be willing to make that trade if you give us a significant discount on the next tech purchase.

Thanks,
Zeviz (temporary RB ambassador)

[Swiss Pauli]

I'd said we'd let him know when he's got Alpha, so we should wait until then (as he hasn't replied) before firming up our proposal (whatever that may be).

[Zeviz]

Considering the likelihood of Templar/Imperio alliance against us, we have to make a stronger alliance with PAL.

In fact, I would propose Open Borders for intercontinental trade routes.

EDIT: Here is proposed second paragraph for the offer:

Since we are considering longer term research alliance and now have a trade connection, let's sign OB. This will help up compete against Imperio's rediculous floodplain start with 3 gold resources.

This both offers them OB, opens possibility of long-term alliance, and warns them of Imperio's economic power.

[Zeviz]

Any feedback on proposed messages?

We have to start talking soon, if we don't want them to sign the 3-way deal with Templars and Imperio. (The 3-way deal we refused to enter into.)

[Swiss Pauli]

Whatever we do, we don't want to seem too keen for a deal with PAL, as whiplash will smell our desperation and change terms accordingly (maybe not for the current deals, but certainly for future trades).

I think we can ask for OBs as a matter of course, and tell him that it's looking good for the Monarchy-CoL deal, as 'there's only a couple of team members left to convince of the merits of the trade'.

I don't think Imperio would go for a trading alliance; I'm sure they'd feel better off picking and choosing deals, given their beaker potential. And Templars aren't the kind of team you'd want to commit to in a trade deal, are they? I can see PAL throwing them a bone here and there, but no more than that.