Letter of JEFF BRIGGS to the CIV COMMUNITY

[Stuie]

Good point Vel - I don't buy Fords anymore because the ones I've purchased have required way too many fixes. For some reason I don't hold software to the same standards; if I like a game, I don't care how many patches it takes to get it working 100%. So I guess I'm part of the problem, not the solution.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And Stuie....I'm not razzing anybody for liking the game....a forum search will reveal that I was once a quite vocal supporter of the game.

Just so you know....

I remember your vocal support of the game. And I'm not razzing anybody for not liking the game. To each his own; I happen to enjoy PTW (once I modded it appropriately, of course ).

[Velociryx]

Kudos for exercising your rights as a consumer. You weren't happy with the quality of Fords, and you didn't buy another one.

I can certainly understand why some people wouldn't or don't hold software companies to the same standards as, say....autos, but I do.

I get a brochure or a pamphlet on a car that specs it out and hypes it up, then if I buy that car, I expect it to meet what company representatives are saying about it WHEN I DRIVE IT OFF THE LOT.

If they tell me it's got 900 horsepower, then BY GOD, I want all 900 of them from the moment I drive it off the lot....not 300 now, 200 in the first patch, another 150 in the next one, and so forth.

And I expect the same thing out of software. I want what *company representatives* are describing their product as, and I want it from the moment I open the box and install it.

Here's another example....another quote pulled from the Civ3 site, regarding PTW:

Play the World is a packed multiplayer expansion. One that we hope satisfies our customers' desire to reach out and crush players around the world!

Doesn't matter that they patched the MP code later to make it work...the ONLY question in my mind is....given that THIS is what they're hyping PTW as....Is this what you got out of the box? The ability to play opponents around the world?

Did the software out of the box live up to this statement (quoted earlier):

our main goal with Civ III: Play the World was to provide the ultimate Civilization multiplayer experience. This meant taking what worked from previous incarnations of the series, and mixing them with new and innovative features.

-=Vel=-

[SpencerH]

With MOO3 out soon, we'll have a good comparison to CIV3, especially since they're both published by the same company.

[FlameFlash]

With these new features: Direct IP especially... I wonder if Macs are slowly going to be supported...

Any word on that? No time to read all 7 pages.

[Velociryx]

Good question, Flash...I'm sorry to say that I'm not sure. Probably, the answer to that is the same as the answer to a lot of questions.

Maybe....if enough people buy PTW to make it worth their while.

And my apologies to anybody who might be offended by my little tirade, but please understand that I do NOT consider this debate to be about "is Civ3 cool or does it suck?"

In my mind, it has nothing to do with that (which is an entirely subjective debate in any case). It has *everything* to do with company representatives hawking their products as being one thing, and what you get when you open the box is NOT what they said (see above quotes). In that case, H*LL Yes! You, as a consumer have EVERY RIGHT and reason to hold their feet to the fire. I believe that's commonly referred to as the ol "bait and switch" routine. It's not about whether you personally bought PTW for it's MP features...it's about the company saying one thing and delivering something else.

They didn't hype the SP features of PTW...even the NAME of the expansion implies an MP experience, and that, plus the quotes I already used, is the basis for fact that PTW was hyped *by company reps* as a multi-player expansion (else I suppose the title would have been "Civ3 - Play With Yourself" which might not have gotten them as many sales, come to think of it )....more specifically, it is hyped *on the Civ3 site* the "the ultimate Civilization multiplayer experience."

Didja get what they said you would when you opened the box?

Let's frame the example in some other industry and see how long said company would survive...cell phones. That's a hot market.

Introducing the new Civilization Mach 3 Cell Phone!
......Yours in a spiffy Tin holding case for an extra ten bucks, with a note from the designer subbing in as designer's notes!

Yeah...we know....we know....coverage ain't all that great and some of the buttons are missing or don't work yet (editor), but hey....if enough people buy our phones, we might be persuaded to send you working copies of those buttons later, so c'mon! Tell all your friends!

Oh....you actually wanted to call OTHER people on the phone? Sorry....we had planned on making that feature available, but pulled the plug not long before the release of the phone, but isn't it *Attractive!* State of the art!

You know....now that you've bought the phone, for an extra 50% of the original purchase price, we'll sell you "Civilization, Phone the World"....it's that feature we hyped up when initially developing the phone, but wound up pulling the plug on, but now....if you send us another love letter, we'll include it. That's *almost* as good as getting it free, isn't it?

What? You bought "Civ3 - Phone the World," and you want to make something other than LOCAL calls (LAN) on your phone? Hey, c'mon....we promised "call the world" in the title, but really...isn't local enough?

Oh....alright. We'll patch it. If enough people keep sending those love letters in....

Just out of curiosity....how long would you keep phone service with these guys?

-=Vel=-

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Velociryx

Just out of curiosity....how long would you keep phone service with these guys?

-=Vel=-

Vel... nice point... except in the case of cell phone providers, we as consumers have a whole lot of choices. For TBS games like Civ3, there's not a lot of NEW material out there being produced for and played by a large audience.

I think PTW would have been a much better product if there was some real competiton about that threatened Infogrames' bottom line.

Oh, and I'll ask again... anyone have any idea what an "Infograme" is supposed to be?

[Velociryx]

Watch for Candle'Bre and other Indie projects....we might not be on anybody's RADAR screen yet, but I assure you....we're coming.

As to what an Infograme is....my guess would be a small, bespeckled mole-like creature....

but I could be mistaken....

-=Vel=-

[BottleOfPills]

Velociryx -

Thanks for your posts. You are hitting the nail on the head with each one. I agree wholeheartedly.

thanks again

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Watch for Candle'Bre and other Indie projects....we might not be on anybody's RADAR screen yet, but I assure you....we're coming.

As to what an Infograme is....my guess would be a small, bespeckled mole-like creature....

but I could be mistaken....

-=Vel=-

I've been peeking in on the Candle'Bre and Freeciv boards from time to time... looks very promising - but I just hope they don't lose steam.

I'm a little disappointed that Brian Reynolds' new venture is a RTS, not a TBS... looks like a highly evolved sort of AOE to me...

[Velociryx]

Thanks man! Although with each post, I can almost feel the stakes getting higher and higher where my own indie game project is concerned.....if it flops for any reason, I don't suppose I'll ever hear the end of it....but *rightly so!*

It's about accountability, after all....and if our group releases a steaming pile of #$%$ of a game, then we'll deserve every bit of venom tossed our direction, and then some.

Looks like I have all the more reason to make d@mned sure we succeed....

-=Vel=-

[Raion]

Just out of curosity! Has the phone business been in business for over 100 years?

I guess to me, that is exactly what the communications industry is!

There's civilization for you!

Hit it right on the head!

And yes, most are still in business, and still are doing the same things!

[Raion]

And now with the computer game, you people finally are talking about 'civilization', while taking your car in for the next recall.

You guys and gals (if any) are funny!

A game comes out, not quite right, and you people end up talking about the very subject of even having a civilization and a Internet to play it on -- in the game.

Then its Bloodbaths according to someone else on this forum - when humans playing together.

Next the game probably will be fixed, people will get tired of having bloodbaths playing other humans, then a few people will want only to play the single player game, like when it first came out.

The competition may be too much for some people.

Welcome to real life through a computer game called 'Civilization'!

Oh, don't stop discussing all of this real experience you are having out of a computer game!

Virtual life!
Next!

[notyoueither]

Comparing software to any other industry is pointless. No other industry has the same strengths, weaknesses, or capabilities to fix a product after sale.

There is a marketing department to satisfy. As well as directors of the corporation (IG) and share holders (investors). The players are not the only factor in the equation. And as I have pointed out in other posts, I have seen majorly FUBARed releases from just about every major player in the computer industry (hardware and software). If you do not like it, perhaps you should swear off computers (not just Firaxis and IG). I swear, stick around long enough and it will happen again, and again, with many different products from many different vendors.

It is the nature of the beast.

[MarkG]

Precisely *because* you cannot see or feel or touch or test a software product prior to its purchase

ever heard of demos?

the ONLY mechanism you have of making an informed purchase decision is the buzz that the software generates and the description on the box.

i believe the "buzz"(i call it info) found on sites like ours help people a lot...