Letter of JEFF BRIGGS to the CIV COMMUNITY

[Velociryx]

First, I would say that there is a difference between patching a product to completion and fixing bugs you didn't catch earlier. Two very different beasts, would you not agree?

What I am against, is a release-and-patch methodology of releasing something in a state of incompletion, and then (maybe....remember that post-sale, the company is under NO obligation to do anything....they have your money already) patching it to completion. And if it worked without a hitch, then what reason would Jeff have to write his letter? What reason would there be to have an immediate push for a patch to fix MP issues, if there *were no* MP issues?

Civ3 was incomplete when released. The editor for designing "detailed scenarios", to use but one example from the print on my LE Tin, would be an example of this incompletion. The editor was simply not capable of that when I initially installed the game, and....since Firaxis was at that point (post sale) under no obligation to provide me with anything else, it can rightly be said that no...there was no guarantee of any further support. No legal obligation = no guarantee.

Patching an uncaught bug, on the other hand, is acceptable.

One would hope, however, that if one is releasing an expansion BASED ON MP, that MP would be so fully and completely tested that there would be no such bugs....at least not in the most-touted part of the expansion.

This was not the case (witness the patch to completion...again).

The state of incompletion is NOT the fault of Firaxis. Remember, (pointed out earlier in the thread) they jump thru what hoops IG tells them to....if there's a boogy man there, it's IG.

Nonetheless, the product did not work as advertised upon release.

It was, therefore, incomplete, and later patched to completion.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Ahhh....and I'm trying to anticipate at least one of your comments here....and that would be the question of "why then, if Firaxis is not to blame...if IG is the boogy man here, are you hounding Firaxis?"

Cos $hit rolls downhill.

IG holds the money, and Firaxis does the work. IG = Manager, Firaxis = Employee, and if there's a problem, the manager is teflon....it all flows downhill.

That's why IG's got such a sweet deal in this equation.

-=Vel=-

[player1]

Originally posted by Velociryx
What I'm against is a company (ANY kind of company, whether they're selling "just a game" or not) hyping one thing, selling an incomplete or patently unfinished version of what they're hyping, taking our money with ZERO promise or guarantee of fixing it later.

But Firaxis is not "any compamy".
Firaxis HAS reputation of company which FIXES probelms with new patches, and supports their games.

I would have not bought PtW if I didn't know it was done with Friaxis.

Since I knew that it WILL be patched.

And I guess that I was right.

P.S.
Of course unfortunately it also got reputation of releasing games with many bugs on release (most be something with deadlines).

But, that's NOT problem with me, since reputaion of fixing those probelms is ENOUGH for me get their product.

Some one could say, that I'm some sort of betatester them.

But, so what?

At the end, I get polished game, and lot of fun (even many months before it's polished at the end). For me both vanilla Civ3 & PtW were enjoable in SP.

And now, with patches, I could enjoy MP too.

[Velociryx]

::nodding:: And all of this speaks *directly* to the point made earlier.

This is not a Firaxis-unique problem. Rather, it is a result of an industry that is put together backwards and has no sense of itself.

I take absolutely no issue...NONE with folks who like the game as is, even if "as is" is unfinished, unpolished, and with key features not working.

If you enjoy it....awesome.

Again, my point is that if it ain't finished, SAY SO. Don't hype the game as a finished product and then let me find out the freakin hard way that it ain't so. (yeah, well...it's finished....except for the heater....and the right front door....and one tire is flat....but otherwise, you got what you paid for!).

No.

If you're selling me something that's not done, TELL ME BEFORE I BUY! Doesn't mean I'll automatically not bite, but I'd kinna like to know that little detail (oh....you're buying it for MP....hmmm...well, that ain't quite ready for prime time yet....unless you're playing someone under these conditions, you might want to wait). *Do Not* try to lure me in with the hype of a finished product and then after you've got my money feed me some line about how you'll maybe give me what I paid for later with a patch.

That's a fast, simple, and brutally effective way to lose me as a customer *no matter what you do later.*

To my way of thinking, whether or not you enjoyed the earlier versions of Civ and PTW is an entirely separate (and subjective) issue from assessing the quality and accuracy of product information available. I enjoyed it too. I feel as though I got my money's worth out of Civ3.

But what I got wasn't what was described on the LE Tin I paid ten extra bucks for. Not by a country mile.

We can't argue subjective points....well, we can, but it generally does little good. We CAN document the quality and accuracy of product information and hold companies accountable for the quality and accuracy OF that information.

-=Vel=-

[notyoueither]

They announced a patch before it hit the shelves. What did that tell you?

[FNBrown]

Heck, they didn't even "announce" the patch... Civ3.com never had it. If you weren't on one of the fansites, you were S.O.L.

[Velociryx]

Then I stand down, and corrected. Didn't see that on the company website. Did they say what the patch would be addressing, or simply that there was one in the works?

-=Vel=-

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Then I stand down, and corrected. Didn't see that on the company website. Did they say what the patch would be addressing, or simply that there was one in the works?

-=Vel=-

Don't stand down. I challenge you to find ANY PTW patch on Civ3.com right now.

[Velociryx]

Cross posted with FNBrown....announcing it at 'poly isn't exactly announcing it. I'm a member of the community and I didn't see it.

Those aforementioned "Q4-type shoppers" sure didn't see it.

-=Vel=-

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by FNBrown


Don't stand down. I challenge you to find ANY PTW patch on Civ3.com right now.

Ouch

[Velociryx]

Officially un-standing down.

NO patch, and NO patch information or announcement at Civ3.com.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: A good deal of hype tho....

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Officially un-standing down.

NO patch, and NO patch information or announcement at Civ3.com.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: A good deal of hype tho....

Are you talking about the first patch, that was out the day of the release or the recent patch?

If the latter, check my link, there is a patch on the website.

I think that the first patch could be found at the time on Firaxis.com, not that that is good enough, I assume, it wouldn't have been for me, had i not known of this place or of civfan

[SlowwHand]

[Velociryx]

I.....rest my case.

Or rather....Asleepathewheel rested it for me.

So many patches to choose from....so little time....

-=Vel=-
(but the game wasn't broke or incomplete, mind you)

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I.....rest my case.

Or rather....Asleepathewheel rested it for me.

So many patches to choose from....so little time....

-=Vel=-
(but the game wasn't broke or incomplete, mind you)

Now you're just being a jerk.

I pointed out how you were incorrect about the existence of a patch on the website and you turn it into how the game was broken. Very clever, I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself.