Oppositions to Arabs

[roalan]

Saddam

Don't assume Saddam will not use Chem or nukes because we will retaliate in kind. You never know what goes through the mind of a dictator. If they feel they can not survive the they will take all they can with them . See Hitler for example.
Also don't think that you just have to put on a suite and helmut to survive chem attack. Unless suites have change since I was in the service this is not an easy task and they are not comfortable to wear very long. And if it is summer Ugh!!.
And yes your dammed straight that some countries need the US protection especially Europe and the Pacific rim. As soon as they are attacked you will hear the screeming for us to help them. Despite all this they still hate us in other countries,at least all the major ones I have been in. They hate us for our power,wealth,and ease of getting goods,outspokenness,and our business that we export . But they love for 12 minuets when we liberate them.

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by vmxa1

Chomsky is a true American hater. If you like him I can dismiss you now.

Okay, to my refusal to participate in any more vehement discussions about the Middle East viz Israel, I now add a second -- no more discussions about who a "true" American is.

I shall, however, have the last word as to what I am:

I believe in the Constitution. Uniquely, our armed forces take an oath to defend IT, not the flag.

I pay taxes.

I research issues.

I believe ideology -- blindly not questioning, in any guise -- diminishes us as human beings.

I vote.

I weep when arrogance causes needless suffering, ANYWHERE. And am deeply ashamed when it is done by the alleged "good guys".

I play Civ III

Abraxas,

Ozymandias

PS I am beginning work on my global "1000 CE mod". Any thoughts on how to best model the Islamic-Arab dominated parts of the world would be greatly welcome! -- As for any other thoughts on the mod, look for a new thread in a week or two.

-Oz

[Traelin]

Re: Saddam

Originally posted by roalan
And yes your dammed straight that some countries need the US protection especially Europe and the Pacific rim. As soon as they are attacked you will hear the screeming for us to help them. Despite all this they still hate us in other countries,at least all the major ones I have been in. They hate us for our power,wealth,and ease of getting goods,outspokenness,and our business that we export . But they love for 12 minuets when we liberate them.

My sentiments exactly roalan. Funny, but you didn't hear the Kuwaitis griping when we liberated them. Wow, that lasted all of a year though. Now their radicals are attacking our battle-practicing marines in the most cowardly of ways.

The main reason most countries hate us is for one reason and one reason only: because we have the money and we have the might. Period. Them's the facts boys and girls, whether one likes it or not. That's not arrogance, it's just the way it is. That's how it was when the Romans ruled the world, that's how it was when the USSR and the US faced off, and that's how it will always, ALWAYS be toward the one in power.

It is modeled perfectly in CivIII. Think about it. In Civ, when you're the dominant power, everyone automatically has discontent toward you. You have to give up some of your goods to appease them. Well guess what? It smacks of the same notions IRL.

As long as the US has the power, we will unfortunately always be rushing to other people's aid. Regardless of what people think, political motives still have a root in deep-seeded beliefs. We are a Judeo-Christian nation, yet we are also capitalist. Naturally we swing in these directions on the world stage.


But this debate is really pointless, since the facts speak for themselves. Was anyone watching the news when the Haitians landed in Key Biscayne? This is not out of the ordinary. People come to this country in droves to seek better opportunities. You'll never see them flock like this to any other country, because those countries just don't have the same things to offer. We are an imperfect nation, but man I'd sure hate to live anywhere else. I couldn't imagine what it'd be like to have the ridiculous taxes of Europe, or the hunger of Africa, or the turmoil of the Middle East. Americans are very fortunate.

Even though I can't stand Buchanan's stance on the environment and other issues, I'd like to see a couple of his ideas come into play, just for a year or so. I'd like us to shut down our borders and slap tariffs on every country that does the same to us. Yep, our economy would suffer, just as it did under Roosevelt. But every other country would be homeless and penniless, and -- just for a split second -- would see that we are actually worthy of a little respect.

I'd like to see us bring all our military back home, and instead dump all of our extra taxes and resources into R&D. That way we can develop defenses to any weapon any other country has, and let everyone else kill themselves while we sit back and say, "Hrm, is there a problem?"

OK enough ranting. I love getting riled up, but I love ruffling other people's feathers even more.

[gsmoove23]

Wow, you're a centrist? Yeah, everyone hates America because we're powerful, we're wealthy, of course it has nothing to do with what that power and wealth means for other countries. Attempting to force feed the rest of the world genetically modified foods, being the highest energy consumers in the world and flinging away the Kyoto Treaty, forcing a special exemption for its troops in the new international court. Its great to be part of the winning team isn't it, all the rest are just sore losers, in my eyes we are being awful winners.

Yes, America is a wonderful place to live, I was even suprised in Britain by the difference in standard of living, but think for a moment, what if you had lost out on the crapshoot and were born on the other side of the fence.

vmxa1, get a grip, the idea is a country with the free exchange of ideas, freedom of speech, freedom to criticize. People who really love the US have a host of shortcomings they could list, that includes conservatives, liberals, greens, skinheads, members of the Nation of Islam, etc... I don't know about you but my mother loves me and she just won't get off my back when I'm home. You want the best for what you love and it hurts when you feel it comes up short.

If you would call me an Americahater I would say its your America I hate. I live in a different place. Please stop throwing around the term and just get your hands dirty in the endless tug of war that is and should be American life.

[roalan]

America

Does any also notice when a disaster happens in the world who gives the most -way most- of the aid and comfort. USA .BUT does anyone remember when we have a disaster what countries send us aid? Who are they? Don't spend to long in adding them up.

[roalan]

Foreign Aid

Does anyone know in how many other countries budgets there is an item for Foreign Aid to the US?
We sure as Hell have a lot of Foreign Aid items for them.
They take our $ and run cursing us all the way home.

[Cyclotron]

In the spirit of OT...

Oz, you mentioned last page that bush "won" by negative several thousand votes.

What is the difference between Bush's supposed trampling of the constitution and your assertion that he lost even though he won according to the constitution? Is this a pick and choose document? Are you aware that the popular vote means nothing at all?

[Traelin]

Re: America

Originally posted by roalan
Does any also notice when a disaster happens in the world who gives the most -way most- of the aid and comfort. USA .BUT does anyone remember when we have a disaster what countries send us aid? Who are they? Don't spend to long in adding them up.

Hehe there was a great editorial written after 9/11 by a Canadian journalist, but for the life of me I can't remember his name. It was dead-on. Some of the questions he posed were:

Who was the country that had volunteer firefighters (OT: many of them came from my county) immediately signing up to help Turkish earthquake victims, yet NEVER receives help in return?

Who is always giving humanitarian aid, but when they have federal disasters and suffering people they receive nada?

Etc.

Wish I could locate that article.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
In the spirit of OT...

Oz, you mentioned last page that bush "won" by negative several thousand votes.

What is the difference between Bush's supposed trampling of the constitution and your assertion that he lost even though he won according to the constitution? Is this a pick and choose document? Are you aware that the popular vote means nothing at all?

And just as an addenum to your post cyclo, I always have supported the electoral college. People don't realize that if it came down to a popular vote, there would be a host of problems that would arise. Voter fraud would be higher, and special interest groups would buy an election via urban locales, much like Gray Davis won the CA governorship via San Fran and L.A. special interests.

Thumbs down to those that don't understand the beauty of the electoral college, regardless of who wins or loses the election.

[Cyclotron]

[OT rant]Yeah right, Davis won because Simon is a chump and ran the worst campaign I've ever seen. Now, I think Davis is a slimeball, but let's face it... he knows how to be a politician. Simon has loads of money, special interests didn't win the election for Davis.[/OT rant]

Oh, but I agree with you on the issue of the electoral college. I'm a democrat and it irritates me to no end to hear other democrats talking about a "stolen election" and whatnot.

Umm... as a feeble attempt to make this post on-topic, Arabs are cool.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Wow, you're a centrist?

Hehe OK I'll put my cajones on the line and tell you how I stand on major political issues. Then I'll let you decide.

Gun-Control: Absolutely insane. George Mason wrote wonderful debate material about what "maintaining a militia" means. Since he helped draft the Bill of Rights, he would know. He stated that the militia potentially consists of any citizens not serving in federal public office (I summarized it though, it's better if you read it for yourself). It's pretty simple actually. People and their warped minds kill people. Guns are simply a means to an end, like knives, cars, etc.

Abortion: Pro-life.

EDIT: Military: Damn right, baby. I won't quote my favorite Founding Fathers on this one either. Contrary to popular beliefs, the military is a driving force for our economy. One of my econ teachers once told me that "War is good." He meant in the economic sense, of course.

Death Penalty: Against, although this is a recent metamorphosis. I'd suggest throwing them all in a rigorous labor camp in the Mojave or something. They can work while they appeal their crappy cases, instead of sitting on death row eating up my $.

Environment: Good God I hate the typical Republican view. God gave us dominion over animals and nature, but what does that truly mean? A great book, Dominion, written by Matt Scully, explains a good deal of my argument. He's a conservative Catholic who used to speechwrite for Dole BTW.

Let's just put it this way. It's disgusting how brutal we are to animals. D-I-S-G-U-S-T-I-N-G. You wouldn't believe how industrial farms mistreat animals. Abysmal, to say the least.

I'm still torn on ANWAR. What I mean is this... Should we be dependent on foreign oil and let them destroy their own ecosystem, or should we be independent of them and drill our own? Granted, our drilling technology is a lot better than the Sauds. But still you could have drunken drillworkers pull the same type of event like the Valdez.

Free enterprise: The SEC is worthless right now IMHO. Businesses get away with WAAY too damn much.

Freedom of speech: I must say I fall in line with the ACLU on this one, except in cases where there are groups that are notoriously involved in crimes. KKK, Nation of Islam, etc. They should be watched closely.

Legalization of Mary Jane: I wouldn't smoke it myself. I hate the stuff. And I do worry about creating a nation of slackers. But quite frankly, I have less of a problem with the average person using it than I do with the average person being locked away for 10-20 years for something so silly. It's not like it's cocaine for God's sake.

Miscellaneous: Reduce the drinking age to 18 (if they can be drafted they can drink), raise the driving age to 18, and throw anyone caught with a DUI into prison on the FIRST offense.

Oh yeah, taxes suck. Especially when they're used for frivolous, PC issues. I would literally live and die for our Constitution, but not for taxes.

Originally posted by gsmoove23
being the highest energy consumers in the world and flinging away the Kyoto Treaty, forcing a special exemption for its troops in the new international court.

I will NOT be dragged into the Kyoto discussion. Go to globalwarming.org to find out the facts. In a nutshell, we are in an Ice Age recessionary period.

Man I really disagree with your premises gsmoove.

[Traelin]

Double-post.

[roalan]

elec. coll.

Originally posted by Traelin


And just as an addenum to your post cyclo, I always have supported the electoral college. People don't realize that if it came down to a popular vote, there would be a host of problems that would arise. Voter fraud would be higher, and special interest groups would buy an election via urban locales, much like Gray Davis won the CA governorship via San Fran and L.A. special interests.

Thumbs down to those that don't understand the beauty of the electoral college, regardless of who wins or loses the election.

Also the big states would dictate to the rest of the country .Bog East states + cal.would have all the say .

[roalan]

reply

Originally posted by Traelin


Hehe OK I'll put my cajones on the line and tell you how I stand on major political issues. Then I'll let you decide.

Gun-Control: Absolutely insane. George Mason wrote wonderful debate material about what "maintaining a militia" means. Since he helped draft the Bill of Rights, he would know. He stated that the militia potentially consists of any citizens not serving in federal public office (I summarized it though, it's better if you read it for yourself). It's pretty simple actually. People and their warped minds kill people. Guns are simply a means to an end, like knives, cars, etc.

Abortion: Pro-life.

EDIT: Military: Damn right, baby. I won't quote my favorite Founding Fathers on this one either. Contrary to popular beliefs, the military is a driving force for our economy. One of my econ teachers once told me that "War is good." He meant in the economic sense, of course.

Death Penalty: Against, although this is a recent metamorphosis. I'd suggest throwing them all in a rigorous labor camp in the Mojave or something. They can work while they appeal their crappy cases, instead of sitting on death row eating up my $.

Environment: Good God I hate the typical Republican view. God gave us dominion over animals and nature, but what does that truly mean? A great book, Dominion, written by Matt Scully, explains a good deal of my argument. He's a conservative Catholic who used to speechwrite for Dole BTW.

Let's just put it this way. It's disgusting how brutal we are to animals. D-I-S-G-U-S-T-I-N-G. You wouldn't believe how industrial farms mistreat animals. Abysmal, to say the least.

I'm still torn on ANWAR. What I mean is this... Should we be dependent on foreign oil and let them destroy their own ecosystem, or should we be independent of them and drill our own? Granted, our drilling technology is a lot better than the Sauds. But still you could have drunken drillworkers pull the same type of event like the Valdez.

Free enterprise: The SEC is worthless right now IMHO. Businesses get away with WAAY too damn much.

Freedom of speech: I must say I fall in line with the ACLU on this one, except in cases where there are groups that are notoriously involved in crimes. KKK, Nation of Islam, etc. They should be watched closely.

Legalization of Mary Jane: I wouldn't smoke it myself. I hate the stuff. And I do worry about creating a nation of slackers. But quite frankly, I have less of a problem with the average person using it than I do with the average person being locked away for 10-20 years for something so silly. It's not like it's cocaine for God's sake.

Miscellaneous: Reduce the drinking age to 18 (if they can be drafted they can drink), raise the driving age to 18, and throw anyone caught with a DUI into prison on the FIRST offense.

Oh yeah, taxes suck. Especially when they're used for frivolous, PC issues. I would literally live and die for our Constitution, but not for taxes.




I will NOT be dragged into the Kyoto discussion. Go to globalwarming.org to find out the facts. In a nutshell, we are in an Ice Age recessionary period.

Man I really disagree with your premises gsmoove.

I strongly agree with all except
1) Death Penalty..I have not changed,
2) We should "suddenly" discover something else to use in place of oil. What will happen that when the day come the oil is about to run out then the oil co.s will "suddenly" come up with a substitute.
3) ACLU are a bunch of A**h***s. who favor anything that the public does not.
4) No legal MJ
5) Bad excuse that if you are drafted you can drink. When an 18yr old is drafted he is a private and his task is to follow orders-not to think on his own but just follow orders-until he earns the promotion where he can start to think a bit on his own, but still for a number of years until he makes NCO he only follows orders. This does not make him a responsible person able to drink legally. Unfortunately privates are usually cannon fodder.By the time he can make decisions he will be old enopugh to drink with responsibility.
An interesting note about taxes. We in Mass had a ballot question wheither to eliminate taxes or not .We had the vote right in our hands and the vote was TA DA
53% to 47% to KEEP TAXES.

[Cyclotron]

Awesome. Taxes rock.