Oppositions to Arabs

[gsmoove23]

Olaf, how is this on-topic, its an opposition to the arabs thread

Mongols had an incredible influence on our world just because of the general higgledy piggledy they made of the cultural racial makeup of the world from the far-east all the way to europe. Aren't the Turks essentially a mongol tribe?

I like to generally stear away from discussions of which civs are more significant so I'll try to keep my comments here to devil's advocate. I have problems with the Romans as most significant because IMO their most impressive feat was how much they borrowed from other cultures, the Greeks for the most part who in turn borrowed heftily from the Egyptians. They do of course have an incredible influence on our modern european world.

[Buster13]

Wow, compared to you guys, I'm a centrist...and I thought I was liberal!

-2.25, -4.67

Just call me Charles Kennedy.

[KoalaBear33]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
Romans were the only of the above mentioned that still have any large influence on the world. Their language and religion are easily traceable thoughout the whole western world including USA and Latin America. You write CIVIII as often as CIV3, don't you? The Mongols were mostly raiders who pillaged one town and went on to the next. Perhaps they left some permant traces in China where they actually settled, but I doubt that it's even closely comparable to the romans influence on the western world.

I don't think the impact on modern day should be the most important thing to consider. If there was a civilization that was isolated but very advanced/good, I would still consider that to be best. Impact on present can't really be measured anyway. For example, you mention that people use the Roman numerals still. Well, people use Indian/Arabic numbers more so should they be valued more? Similarly, the British law and parliamentary system is far more prevalent than anything else so does that mean Britain is #1 when it comes to politics?

KoalaBear33

[KoalaBear33]

I'm moving ovre to the other thread for all econopolitical dissucssions...

KoalaBear33

[Abdul Alhazred]

My answer : it has actually in PTW 24 civs ...
We can add 8 extra civs ...

My propositions :

Jews, Polynesians, Incas, Aborigens, Mayans, ...

That's all !

[sabrewolf]

abdul: no, only 7 more, for the barbarians are counted as a civ too.
but maybe the new data-format in XP2 might allow 64 civs

[roalan]

Bull

Bull those foreign investors invest to make money period. If I gert any benifit it is from corporate taxes earned from them. I doubt the foreign investors even pay US taxes on their profits. They send NO $ for any US needy. As for oil you can believe it when the oil Co. can come up with something else but profits are to good to switch. If you are old enough to rem,ember Nixon he wanted the oil co. to develope fuel from Shale. They ignore him. If they had done something like that we would be of the oil standard today.
I scored Eco.-4,25 and Auth/Lib .067 Not as right wing as you thought.

[Ozymandias]

The Rare Virtue Of A Wandering Thread

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre

Finally an on topic post! I wonder where the moderators are?

To us all, and moderators perhaps especially! --

There is a genuinely unique aspect to this thread, which comprises many (granted, by no means all) of its digressions and rants.

For ALL of our lifetimes until 9/11, the clash of arms was between ideological blocks (often very artifically constructed) or between nations, often within the same "civilization" (almost all of Europe's 20th Century wars).

We are living during a time PERCEIVED (rightly or wrongly) as the first large-scale clash of CIVILIZATIONS in a very, very long time. I say "perceived" because there are so many factors in play that the perception might or might not be fully accurate.

Whether or not the perception is 100% correct or not, this clash of civilizations carries, for all sides, historical baggage dating back to the earliest wars between European Christendom and the very first Islamic jihad -- all ca. 700 CE. So we are perhaps witnessing the re-emergence of an unresolved dispute -- and its successors, well past the seventh generation -- which is in its 1300th year of existence!

In these forums, I am ALWAYS asking, "what is a civilization", knowing full well that there is no comprehensive answer, but even our OT rants have served to ask/question --

1. Is there an "Islamic" Civ vs. a "Juedeo-Christian" civ?

2. Is either really a single Civ?

3. Do America and Europe make up one cultural Civ or not -- for that matter, does EITHER Europe or America make up a single Civ?

The thread's initial, well-posed question, about some opposition to an Arab Civ, has led to this, as we are forced to examine, up close and ugly, the first titanic rift between what have historically been different Civs, in our lifetimes -- and it has a 1300 year pedigree, to boot.

So you see it's all very, very much on-topic, for we are all questioning what a "Civilization" is, in a non-academic manner, for the very first time.

So kudos to everyone who has thoughtfully participated, no matter what his or her opinion.

Peace, Salaam, Shalom,

Ozymandias

[Traelin]

Originally posted by KoalaBear33
If any of you want to figure out where you stand on the econopolitical spectrum, check out this test:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

It is a test that breaks from the typical left/right categorization and uses 2-dmensional categories. I thought it was accurate and liked it; I don't know if you'll agree with it.

I get a rating of economics: -6 and authoratarian/libertarian: -6.26. Exactly where I think I am; mix of anarchism and socialism

NOTE: If you are not comfortable, don't describe your scores.

KoalaBear33

Pretty nifty. I scored a -1.12 on econ and -1.28 on authoritarian/libertarian. I guess I am pretty centrist, and way far right compared to you guys.

[ilcattolico]

Originally posted by Traelin


Pretty nifty. I scored a -1.12 on econ and -1.28 on authoritarian/libertarian. I guess I am pretty centrist, and way far right compared to you guys.

I scored:

Economic Left/Right: 0.75
Authoritarian/Libertarian: 5.64

[sabrewolf]

oh my oh my, il cattolico... you're not very fond of freedom, aren't you

but i must ask you guys, not to post political answers in this thread. it's more off topic than anything before in here...
please do it in following thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=66890

thanks!

[gsmoove23]

Re: Bull

Originally posted by roalan
Bull those foreign investors invest to make money period. If I gert any benifit it is from corporate taxes earned from them. I doubt the foreign investors even pay US taxes on their profits. They send NO $ for any US needy. As for oil you can believe it when the oil Co. can come up with something else but profits are to good to switch. If you are old enough to rem,ember Nixon he wanted the oil co. to develope fuel from Shale. They ignore him. If they had done something like that we would be of the oil standard today.
I scored Eco.-4,25 and Auth/Lib .067 Not as right wing as you thought.

You know, a couple of days after 9/11 Guliani(mayor of NYC) actually got in front of the cameras and said please stop sending us stuff, to the entire world. The thing was we were flooded with support, we had too many fireman, too many cops, too much equipment, they even asked people to stop giving blood, I was turned away from 2 hospitals in Brooklyn. This support came mostly from neighbouring states but also from around the world. It was pretty amazing after a catastrophe like that, but it goes to show you exactly how rich and stable we are compared to the rest of the world that we can deal with a catastrophe so quickly. Why are we so suprised that we don't get much monetary support from France? Why are we suprised that we give so much. I guess share the wealth would be too radical a thing to say on this thread, but I would expect it.

if Roalan is left-wing and Traelin is centre what does that mean for the US.

[roalan]

About time

Yes you are correct 9/11 was about the only time other countries help us on site.I believe maybe some fire fighters are helping in the western fires? But 99.9% of the time we go it alone. Also a number of foreign people were killed in 9/11 so it would be only natural for a country to help out.
I am NOT a left wing. test results Ec. L/R -4.25 andAuth /Lib +.067 most people who took this test were far more in the -minus area then me.and my Auth/Lib is a plus. I feel I am a slightly right conservative.
When you pick out 9/11 as the one tome that we had outside help thats like "who is the best ball player ever" And most people vote( because they are young) Barry Bonds. But these people nevwr say Babe Ruth play or Joe. D T. Williams or Jackie RobimsonPlus many others. They never saw Ty Cobb hit 420 in one year etc. So they call the player they saw as the best when that is not the case. Bonds had a great year 73 HR. One year and steroids my have played a part. Ruth etc. had many years the dead ball era year he hi 59 HR's he also batted 398. The same with the top songs ever. Young voters only know waht is popular in the few years they have been listening but songs that go back 3-50 years ago sold millions of records .So saying that in 9/11 others hekped is great what about the last 100 years where were they then?

[gsmoove23]

You skipped my most important point. I asked why are we suprised that France doesn't give money to the richest country in the world? or that we give more money in international support then any other country(I'm not sure you could say per capita, can anyone find figures for this?)? We ARE the RICHEST country in the world. I simply don't see the significance of saying we give the most money so we deserve to be tre... I should HOPE we give the most money since we HAVE the most.

[gsmoove23]

I don't know Roalan, -4.25 thats pretty far left. You're not embarrassed are you