New PC.IGN preview

[RobC]

Originally posted by SerapisIV


Regular is veterancy level? (Regular/Veteran/Elite/Gr.Leader
3/3 is health
1.3.1/1 (Attack.Defense.MovePoints/MovePointsRemaining)

Sound close?

I agree, although for consistency, it's probably MovePointsRemaining/MovePoints instead of the other way around (assuming the 3/3 is HitPointsRemaining/MaxHit Points)

[Wexu]

Originally posted by SerapisIV


Besides, can there forums put up almost 150 posts discussing the preview in the hour or so since the preview was posted? (Cheers to MarkG and Dan)

Well, if you look people like Alex 14's comments, that's no wonder. Most of this guy's posts have only one or two words. This looks more a chat than a discussion board.

It's not the quantity, it's the quality that matters.

[Grumbold]

Very interesting review. The screenshots give lots to think about, especially because the reviewer says he's played a lot of Civ in the past but is still well behind on the tech progression. He's playing badly but is still winning? Is he playing on chieftain or is the AI equally stupid?

The screenshots are at last showing that all sides are at least improving their tiles now - so many early ones looked sparse. The diamond pattern mine/irrigation does look like the AI doesn't evaulate potential so much as follow a rigid pattern. Being able to irrigate diagonally does seem to be an adequate compensation for only getting water from rivers and lakes. We haven't seen many shots where it has not been possible to get water to a city.

I was a little surprised the frigate was only a 2(2).2.2 unit. That means 2,000 years or more of naval combat have to be packed into variations of 1 and 2 attack and defence strength.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by El hidalgo
OK, I don't get this:



He means "supply of fresh water," right? OK, just making sure. Now the comment about electricity: if you can irrigate anywhere, does that mean even on tiles without any access to any kind of water, whether sea or fresh water? If so, I don't get it. How can you irrigate without water? How can I just start irrigating in the middle of the Sahara without drawing off water from a nearby source? (Maybe I'm on an oasis, but that's a special case). On the other hand, if the comment means that after you discover electrity then you can irrigate with sea water, then that makes sense to me. But which is it?

Still, I like this concept very much

I guess the assumption is that you can pump water from far away, or perhaps from an aquafer (like a well).

[albiedamned]

Originally posted by SerapisIV
City Screen

Check this screen out. The irrigation tiles give no more food then un-irrigated plains? They're both by river tiles, is this why?

I believe examining this screen closely shows that all the plains squares which produce 2 food are irrigated. There is also a plains square directly southwest of the city which is un-irrigated and only produces 1 food. A plains (or maybe a desert - it's hard to see) square northwest of the city is producing 4 food. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm guessing there is a bonus resource there(wheat, oasis), and it's just hard to see it in this screenshot. Also, go 2 squares southeast of the city and there is a square producing 4 food, and the food is a different color than the food on the other squares. I have no idea what the significance of the color is. Anyone know or care to guess?

[albiedamned]

Originally posted by Faboba
I've got about 5 minutes till I have to go to school so this is in case no one mentioned it ( as I've no time to read all 4 pages )

In one of the city screens you can see maintainance for city improvements is actually being taken from the trade / commerce generated by that city.

This has the pretty cool effect that now your cities need to support their own improvements rather than you supporting them over your civ as a whole.

Faboba, I believe you are mistaken. On the city screen, the red coins under the Commerce section show the amount lost to corruption, not the amount paid for maintenance. I actually got into this discussion a few weeks ago in a different thread. If you look at the Domestic Advisor Screen, you can see that maintenance (as well as unit support) is calculated against the civ as a whole, not individual cities. The mysterious "Hammer" column in the domestic advisor screen shows how much maintenance each city is costing. However that is just for informational purposes, it does not affect the calculation of gold to treasury, science, entertainment, and corruption within each city. The overall maintenance and unit cost is taken out of the civ treasury.

[albiedamned]

Originally posted by Andy
On the City Build Requests screen, the last item on the list is "Wealth". Given that it only takes one turn to build and by the name, this must be the Civ 3 version of Capitalization. I believe that this is new info and was debated on another thread.

Excellent point. I agree that Wealth is probably Civ3's version of Capitalization. I wonder if it is still tied to The Corporation, or if it becomes available earlier (or later) in the game.

In Civ2, if you ever ran out of stuff to build, you could always stockpile caravans (trade was an early tech), and then cash them in when you started to build your next wonder. You won't have this option in Civ3 since there are no caravans. Hopefully it's designed now such that you won't get to a stage where there is nothing to build, but I doubt it. A dedicated builder like me will always fill up his cities with all the improvements and run out of stuff to build! So hopefully Wealth is available reasonably early.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by UKScud
The deal with rivers is, I think, going to determine a lot of early developed strategies.

For a start, if there is no movement bonus for the river (any evidence that there is a bonus?) then one of the means of really exploring the map readily available in Civ2 is gone. Unless that is, the scout gets a big movement bonus and is available early on.

Actually according to the preview there is a movement penalty for crossing a river, so rivers seem to actually work like the should now (how many times in the past have ancient armies successfully attacked across a river??)

This change, as well as the changes to wheeled vehicles not crossing jungle amd mountains (CtP anyone? ) mean that infantry will be more useful now. I wonder if catapults, cannon & artillery are all considered wheeled??

Defensive bonuses will be good, but of course the AI could well be thinking the same thing.

Maybe the AI will have enough defensive savvy to stall any human aggression, although this would be a remote possibility at best.

I think that fresh water irrigation will make most people think twice about locating their capital city on a sea edge. Pros: Once you have a harbour your trade with other Civs is gonna be easier. Cons: City growth is going to be sluggish without irrigation, and since settler production ultimately depends upon whether you can afford those two pop. points, I think it will slow down your own civilization growth.

Unless of course the city was founded near a river flowing into the sea or near a fresh water lake, then you'll have the best of both world, a port to trade in and fresh water irrigation.

Electricity is definately a 'target' discovery in the same way that Invention or Monotheism was in Civ2. Without extensive irrigation, the population spurt that drives your cities to the modern day just doesn't happen. How important is it to discover electricity first? Would you trade it?

Any other thoughts?

Electricity (for now at least) would have to be one of the top advances to shoot for. Not much will be known until people play the game or find out more details of exactly how everything works, but this one does seem to be major. Other "required" techs will be those that give great wonders that offer huge advantages & bonuses in some way shape or form as usual.

[Father Beast]

Irrigation for cities

OK, so the tiles can't get irigated without a freshwater source, but what about the citysquare?

in civ1/2 your city square was automatically irrigated no matter even if you founded it in the middle of a desert! important point for ptotential ICSers (and no, I don't believe it doesn't work until our guys have tried it).

[Pggar]

Have you seen the hidden screens fouded by Thunderfall from Civfanatics

Lyons

Evil French

Trade and Trade Routes

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Serapis, what are you talking about?

If you look closely, you can see every tile that produces 2 or more food, is irrigated.

No, two on the southern bank of the river, left of the city itself have no irrigation, yet produce the same amount of food as the irrigated tiles

[Grumbold]

Difficult to see with those big icons in the way. They might be irrigated. The one the worker is standing on is only producing one food so it isn't the proximity of the river that is doing it. What I find more odd is that the desert looking tiles are producing more food than the plains.

[Solver]

Only now got the time to read the preview. Absolutely outstandind. All I've read today, including bits from Korean preview, posted by Yin, make me want this game so much more.

Generally, I didn't think much about Civ 3 before August, but now it occupies much of my thought. Go Sid and Co!

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Difficult to see with those big icons in the way. They might be irrigated. The one the worker is standing on is only producing one food so it isn't the proximity of the river that is doing it. What I find more odd is that the desert looking tiles are producing more food than the plains.

I believe all squares adjacent to the river will have additional food just because they are near a river.

I don't know if this was officially stated by anyone at Firaxis, but all of the screen shots I have seen had more food comming from non-irrigated squares near rivers than those same terrain types away from the river.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
I believe all squares adjacent to the river will have additional food just because they are near a river.

I don't know if this was officially stated by anyone at Firaxis, but all of the screen shots I have seen had more food comming from non-irrigated squares near rivers than those same terrain types away from the river.

Unfortunately in that screenshot the square with the worker on it is definitely next to the river but its food production is only 1 unlike all the adjacent squares...