Espionage Options Extremely Disappointing!!

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Earthling7
speculations scmeculations...

There will be consequenses, schomsequenses with
that bad espionage.

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by The diplomat
This issue of Computer Gaming World Mag has an article on the effect of sept 11 on games. It lists some of the games that were delayed or changed because of sensitive content. They claim that Firaxis removed the "poison water supply" spy mission because of the sept 11 attack on the WTC and Pentagon.

I wonder if Firaxis could confirm or deny this.

I´m very unhappy about the poor spionage options.

The "steal tech" option was surely overpowered (as I said before, another civ could steal Spaceflight and start building spaceship parts even if it haven´t discovered flight yet).

However, as a (very late, useless) sugestion, our spies could manage to steal research points to a specific tech. Or, as a possible option, the whole tech (if technical, not social - as monotheism, for example).

Possibly, the devilish options, like "Poison Water Supply" and "Plant Nuclear Device" were removed, along with "Sabotage", because of the events of the Sept. 11th. I do understand this. That day will last forever in my memory, too.

I am sure this is a very sensitive point, specially for the American Citizens, and I have great respect regarding this. But, IMHO, this (Civ3) is only a game. What about nuclear weapons? I thing they will be present... Also, this remembers me of "Colonization", were we had "converts" instead of "slaves".

Games must try to be realistic to some degree. But games must be, IMHO, first of all, fun. Avoiding sensitive issues, like terrorism, is highly understandable. This is to keep the game fun, via not allowing the game to be a reminder of sensitive aspects of present life.

Again, I want to say that I´m unhappy, but I understand. Additionally, I wanted to see more spying options (except the terroristic attacks).

I only hope that the other aspects of the gameplay make me not miss too much the old spy options.

[Dida]

Originally posted by ndnls
One way to balance the steal tech ability would be to only allow spies to steal techs that their civ has 1 or 2 prereqs for, allowing
small nations to keep up or get ahead but not allow them to take
your latest, most advanced technologies

A better idea would be, you can only steal tech of the age that your nation is in. Such that, a civ that is still in Mid age would not be able to get Space Flight.

[Rasputin]

why not only techs/advances that you have all Pre-reqs for ... that way it makes far more sense....

[Rasbelin]

Re: Re: 2 BIG details:

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune

Ah, yes I forget: American propaganda is not propaganda, but information.

Hehehehe! You can't be more right, CT!

The Americans are dropping small radios to
the Afghan population, so that they could listen
to the latest hit music, not to mention cookery shows.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Dida

A better idea would be, you can only steal tech of the age that your nation is in. Such that, a civ that is still in Mid age would not be able to get Space Flight.

I agree with you. That will prevent (especially AI) civs
from getting better techs from a much more advanced civ.
That might ease things at more dificult levels.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Rasputin
why not only techs/advances that you have all Pre-reqs for ... that way it makes far more sense....

A simple solution to making the Steal Tech option viable. Good idea.

[Rasputin]

i also think espionage things should be done qat end of everyones turn befor ethe next round begins, that way you wont know which civ performed the act.. This will work well especiaqlly for terroris activity like destroying buildings , nukes and water poisoning

[Lorizael]

Hey guys, anyone think about the new espionage actions that are present? They are actually quite good if you tihink about them.

And sabotage is still in, just only for buildings under construction. This way you can destroy a cathedral before it gets built... keeping the people unhappy. Then, when they are unhappy, you can use Propaganda to make them join your side. Very insidious if you ask me.

And being able to see all of the enemies movements for a turn means you can stop any sneak attacks, or find weakpoints in their defenses.

Once again I say, planting nukes was too powerful.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

i never understood planting nukes

Every time you planted one in the capital city of another civ, you were "caught red handed minutes before it goes off"

So what?

Whoever caught you must have been a few feet from the bomb, so they would have died in the subsequent explosion.

[fanatic civver]

Firaxis should make it so that the stealing of techs, destroying of buildings and the other espionage options can be enabled using the editor. That would solve the whole issue.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by fanatic civver
Firaxis should make it so that the stealing of techs, destroying of buildings and the other espionage options can be enabled using the editor. That would solve the whole issue.

Well, we haven't see the "Diplomats and Spies" tab of the editor yet, have we? They very well could have made these and many more options available, but felt they were "wrong" for the basic (that is, un-edited) game.

[Boliao]

I think it is not the whole list

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by Ralf


Keep things in perspective, please.
I think the espionage-options that Firaxis have chosen to implement are more then enough.

After all, they shouldnt try to create "a game within a game", with 20+ different options, or more. That would be too distractive, and also potentially gameplay-unbalancing.

Stealing tech's was really overpowerful in Civ-2, and Im glad that its gone. Two succesful tech-thefts gave the same result as building the Darwin Voyage Wonder.

Blowing up Civ-buildings is done best by bombing-missions, during wars. If you do that in peace-time; its empire-supported terrorism.

As usual, well said, Ralf. I believe the root of much of the pessimism, at least coming from yin, is that Civ3 is not "revolutionary" enough. They want to have 20 games-within-a-game, as evidence by their too-complex List. I think, as you imply, that such things would cause everyone to get bogged down in managing details that take away from abstractly managing a global civ through 6000 years.

[HalfLotus]

Originally posted by Steve Clark


As usual, well said, Ralf. I believe the root of much of the pessimism, at least coming from yin, is that Civ3 is not "revolutionary" enough. They want to have 20 games-within-a-game, as evidence by their too-complex List. I think, as you imply, that such things would cause everyone to get bogged down in managing details that take away from abstractly managing a global civ through 6000 years.