Diplomacy Thread

[Togas]

History Guy -- can we get any sort of word from Neu Dem about their expansion plans? I get worried with this silence. We need a promise from them that they will not settle south of the jungle and into El Valle De Los Torros. Also ask them where their scout is going, ask them what they are researching now, and if it's something we can trade, work out a deal for Writing in the future for their tech.

Stress to them that we want peace along our borders and that Togas is very nervous right now with GoW also walking through Spain. We want to know if Neu Dem will respect our wishes. Also find out if they're willing to sign a settlement agreement with us.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

It might also be wise to tell ND that we have already located all the huts in our land.

[ruby_maser]

since we are tiptoeing here with GoW issue, I thought I might throw out an idea to say something like:

El Valle de los Toros represents the most arable land in the vicinity of the Spanish kingdom and, as so, also represents the most viable option for settlement in the near future. Scouting in the valley constitutes a knowledge of our homeland's defenses that we would prefer to avoid. We have made no such scouting expedition north of the jungle for that very reason and have also come to an understanding with Lux Invicta and Neu Demogyptica concerning this issue. As such, we would ask that you join us in friendship and respect and know that we shall extend you and your lands the same courtesy.

...or something like that. Bleh

[Ninot]

sounds good

we tell them to back off... but we make it polite and all, and basically, if they dont comply, their the jackasses.


id send it EXACTLY as you typed it. gold.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
With our wide expanse of land to protect, horseback riding must be obtained as soon as possible. Nevertheless the parity should be checked.

Plus it is on the way to Monarchy, and will help us getting a better image with LI.

[GeneralTacticus]

Eh? Warrior Code is, but not horseback riding.

[OliverFA]

Sorry, I confused the techs. My memory has failed me

[Togas]

adaMada Arrange for a chat with GoW about their warrior and try to peacefully resolve this issue. Explain that our frustrations are increasing.

Tell them that we have recently discovered Iron Working and may be willing to trade with them once this dispute is resolve.

--Togas

[Togas]

I'm not going to trade with GoW (unless I have to) until they vacate Cow Valley.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

Originally posted by Togas

jdjdjd Get back to BFM on this. Say you spoke with me and verified what I verified, and inform him politely of the differences, and toss in some good friendly language, etc etc.

Done.

[Togas]

Had a "not so fruitful" discussion with Ghengis Farb today during my lunch break at work. Only talked about 10 minutes or so before he had to go.

He claims that Aro wants a map of the continent and they are merely following through with that request, but then argued with me, saying there was nothing wrong with scouting as long as they didn't go in our cultural territory, and that they wanted to know where the resources and luxuries were.

He later said he didn't care about knowing where the cities and roads where (if we traded maps) he wants Geography and Resources.

I tried to explain how nervous it makes us to have them know where our resources are ... as the only good it will do is to help someone attack us better. I also stressed to him that we'd made agreements with other nations (Lux) that we wouldn't scout them ... we aren't scouting him. How would he feel if we were?

He believes that we're "hiding something", that we're trying to keep the northern nations out, and says that ND and Lux are sending settlers south "as we speak." I asked him if he wanted to settle down here but he said no. It would be pointless for them to do so.

He pressed me about the Horse Riding for Writing trade. I told him I was uncomfortable trading with him as long as his warriors were in our territory. He *****ed that he "knew we'd back out" and went on about how dishonorable we are. I told him that we'd rather resolve this peacefully, and that a trade boycott was the best peaceful way I could come up with to try to get them to leave us alone.

Nothing else was settled, and the discussion didn't get much further.

Ghengis was not very helpful and I wonder if another person would have better success with him. I seems to me that every time we chat there's an unspoken power game afoot. He may be somewhat intimidated or trying to intimidate me. He might be better served talking to someone who can properly "speak up" to his ego. I urgently request that adaMada do everything in his power to chat with GoW about this issue and try to work out a resolution.

Keep the peace. It's not important that it be soon, but I have three goals:

1) Peace with GoW
2) We tech trade Horseback Riding with Lux, and we use this as a legit excuse to NOT trade with GoW somehow. However, this must be done very delicately, I need GoW to accept that "their actions caused us to trade with someone else" and not to blame us for it.
3) To keep them from finding out about the ivory and spices in the south.

--Togas

[Ninot]

I saw this coming

GoW are gonna take a bully position. They dont need resources they wont settle now, but they want to know where to direct their first attack.

They don't want the cake, but they sure want to eat it.

as for Ghengis. IMNSHO, he makes for a perfect bully diplomat. He forces his opinion on others, and if they still disagree, he'll try to make'm look dumb. Their forcing their explorer down our throat, and throwing blame at us for gagging. IMO, we can't give ground. If we do, it shows we're wrong somehow, or we were. If they'r saying we're being dishonest now, what will they say if we give them something for what they are doing, and this happens again? Cowards, they'll call us.

Honestly, id opt for a fight with GOW over the bad press and THEN a fight down the road.


We just have to push our position that we can't let them have info they'd only need for military purpose.

[Ninot]

As for who to deal with Ghengis, it depends on the road we take.

If we're willing to give into demands, it doesnt matter who we put up against Ghengis .

If we want to make our stand, and try to get the best ending, we need to simply state we are looking out for our own security, and do not wish to give them information they dont need

stress the last part by making them admitt they have no wishes to settle, and tell them we will be overhappy to trade with them once we have a network. Maybe ofer them first luxury rates.

[Arnelos]

We have to stand our ground, but I don't think war is an option at this point. War, even for the purpose of "standing our ground" is obviously stupid at this point.

We may have to just swallow our pride enough to take some form of concession out of GoW, but continue relations with them. Even though we don't want them to scout the western edge of our territory, it's positively silly to give up on tech trading with them entirely or making them a permanent enemy over it. We need to keep them focused on ND rather than us or another.

That said, I'm torn myself.... we got ourselves into this mess and we DO have to stick to our ground to some extent to avoid losing all credibility in our placement of "red lines".

[Ninot]

well war IS stupid if its just to stand our ground and beat our chest, see whos more cowardly.

but look at the options now

IF we give in an inch, we lose face.

IF we give them the tech without them leaving, they gain tactical miliatary info, technology, and good reason to attack us in the future, because we can be labeled as untrustworthy for thinking of keeping them out of territory that isnt ours yet.


IF we dont... we may still risk a fight, but they dont gain that tech, we dont lose face, and we are more certain they will attack us?

is that right?