Diplomacy Thread

[Ninot]

Logic is my guide

[jdjdjd]

I was in a chat tonight, as I entered, GF said:

I was at work and then I needed guidance on the RP situation.

Then spoke no more.

I spoke to Aidun. He happened to be in the chat already. Nothing else to clarify that was said - its probably just gf being his usual self. But I was interested because Trip and Jon_Miller were also in the room. Aidun said gf said that to Trip.

Aidun and I talked - he came up with an interesting idea - undercover chat spies. The Spanish International Chat Information Emancipators & Monitors or SIC'EM. (i get credit for the name)

these are incognito chat monitors - just to see what others may say about us - and perhaps get other teams into informal discussions on the game.

This may be a good idea. Thoughts?

[E_T]

Might not be a good idea, at least to go in under a different Handle. They can check IP's and might relize a ringer...

The problem is then someone would have to be in chat and then look through all of the "trash" to try to find some form of Gem. And that Gem might just be colored glass, as they could be spreading Dis-information.

Eta Tamali

[Hot Mustard]

Hmm. I can't decide if this idea is underhanded or clever. We could make it less so by using handles that give us away, for those that really pay attention, like me using "Fletcher" instead of "dejon", which is in my signature.

I am almost always home, and my connection is very stable, so if the team is into this idea, I could log "Fletcher" onto the public channels forever, and then perform keyword searches on the logs every day or so.

[Togas]

We need at least one constant presence in that chat room as it seems that almost every time I'm in there I learn something new from all of the gossip and jokes and such.

I support us using our RP names while in general chat, names that aren't instantly recognizable by the other teams. We can say that we changed our names because in our RP forum we have to use the character names, and when you change it, it changes in all of the forums.

--Togas

[E_T]

I think that you can open 2 versions of mIRC and have different Nicks for both.

I'm going to test that now.

Eta Tamali

[E_T]

You can have more than 1 up, but it will show you the real Handle if you do a Whois on them.

Example:

Fletcher is dejon@CPE004005ac3173-CM014100211630...ble.rogers.com * dejon
Fletcher on @#civ3rp #apolyton
Fletcher using apolyton.net Apolyton Settler Server
Fletcher has been idle 53secs, signed on Sun Jan 19 21:56:52
Fletcher End of /WHOIS list.

Eta Tamali

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by E_T
You can have more than 1 up, but it will show you the real Handle if you do a Whois on them.

That is okay, after all - we aren't spying, we are just blending into the crowd. No one can accuse us of spying if we're using our character names, as Togas said. In my case, I have also had "Fletcher" in my sig for some time now. But it should pass a casual inspection of chat participants for RP members.

I have started logging the general forum under "Fletcher", as an experiment for now. I'll search the log tomorrow and see if anything worthwhile comes up.

Since I'm leaving mIRC running, I have also got the #civ3rp channel open, but please realize that I'll be largely absent from there. Anyhow, my keeping it open and password locked will keep Trip and company out.

[History Guy]

As for this scout, I wrote as I was directed. Was I wrong in doing so?

(Uh oh...the Watcher is recognizing my plans for a fully organized squid company...so that we may figure out how many squids belong in a squider's dozen!)

[adaMada]

Panzer's Reply to Me

adaMada,

I am finally officially replying to the PM about Roleplay's territorial claim. The Glory of War understands the reason Roleplay would want to claim their own territory to create room for their expansion. We also understand that small territorial claims are necessary, and completly within the spirit of the game. There are several things at this juncture that I think are needed to continue good relations between our two teams:

1. We need to trade maps. We need to know exactly where we are located, and especially where your territorial claim is. We need this information because if we don't have it, there is no guarantee for us that we are moving our warrior out of your territory. We would like to move around your territory, and it would make it much easier for us to have directions. Also, on the flip side, it would be beneficial for your team to understand the geography of the northern part of the continent. We will supply our map in .jpg format if you do the same, with your territorial claim imposed on it. As a clause to this agreement, the .jpgs will not be shown to other teams.

2. We need to develop trust for each other. Unfortunatly, this is impossible when the Roleplay team breaks previously agreed upon deals. This was the case when the roleplay team decided not to trade the Glory of War writing for horseback riding. Our team is dissapointed that this deal got cancelled by your team. Our dissapointment has evolved slowly into a general distrust of your team. We will be forever wary of the Roleplay team in the future, as they have not proven they can be trusted. I can do nothing now but warn you that the consequences could be very grave indeed if you decide to break an agreement with the Glory of War again.

3. We need to acknowledge each other's territory. The Roleplay team has already told us of their territorial claim. With the trading of jpg maps, the Glory of War will be able to see the exact extent of this claim. I quote from adaMada's official response to my question "How large is Roleplay's territorial claim?": "At its widest points, it is about seven spaces wide and four deep". This would mean the territory is no larger than 56 tiles (4*7 twice). If this is true (and the .jpg map can prove this), the Glory of War will support your territorial claim and not enter this zone. As a reciprocal agreement, the Glory of War requests that you do not enter the zone to the north of Neu Demogyptica and Lux Invicta, where the Glory of War is located. I can mark this zone on the .jpg map when we trade also. On the other hand, and your territory is more than 56 tiles large, the Roleplay team has lied to the Glory of War yet again. All of the above in point #3 will be null and void. The Glory of War will not support any current territorial claim by Roleplay, and will be extremely wary of one made in the future.


Thank you for your time, adaMada. I hope you will take these points seriously.

Panzer32,
Consul of Foreign affairs for the Glory of War PTW democracy game

The message in general is basically a slap in the face. I'm guessing that Ghengis went off on his forum and they changed their official diplomatic status to hostile -- they're clearly acting VERY unfriendly to us now.

I need to correct what I said about our full territory -- I screwed up, and I'll take the fall for it with GoW. Can someone who has access to the game suggest some reasonable way to describe what we have? I want to be honest WITHOUT making it seem like a lot of land. I'm afraid this next PM's gonna be VERY tricky -- I don't want to give GoW the chance to accuse us of being liars.

Actually, the best solution might be that Togas 'fire' me. I don't see any other way we can convince GoW that I really messed up (and it wasn't some plot on our parts), and it doesn't look like I'm in good light with them anyway right now. If Togas feels that's the best strategy to get our team out of the mess we're in, I highly suggest he take it -- no hard feelings here if he does. (Or, alternatively, I can always 'resign' over the mistake -- that sounds more realistic).

I need to think a bit more before I post anything else -- I'm very concerned over the whole issue. Sorry that I've messed things up .

-- adaMada

[History Guy]

Now, we have a warrior from the Warmongers heading south to Madrid, and we have this highly insulting message from this rat Panzer, a most repulsive character, if he is as he writes, and I have only one conclusion to make. The Warmongers are making things tough for everybody else, and they are trying to get our tempers roused. It's bloody near working, too...

[adaMada]

Here's one idea to chew on.

What if we claim that our only 'territorial claim' is to the Valley de los Torros, and explain that we welcome Glory of War to explore the sothern part of the continent. We could then bribe them to not settle the land in the south -- it'd be another deal in a trade, just like

The biggest problem I see right now is that there's no way to prevent GoW from finding out very soon that there's more land to the south. We could work by admitting that I screwed up, convincing them to ignore the screw up, or by explaining that there has been a miscommunication, and that there is other land to the south that we do not claim soley for ourselves. If we can come up with a way to convince them that I screwed up, we should do it. Having said that, I do worry that they will believe (not without reason, considering our track record) that this was deliberate. I think we may have to either find some way to justify this to the other teams and cut off diplomactic contact with GoW or to bribe them into overlooking the situation.

Any thoughts?

-- adaMada

[ruby_maser]

If they continue to insist that we broke a deal with them about Horseback Riding for Writing, they are gonna do the same with the other teams. I personally don't see it. They are forcing bad relations with us by ignoring our requests. I suppose we should still have traded with them even if we are at war But our reputation with our allies demands we speak up for ourselves. Keeping quiet about this can do more harm than not.

We need to be open with ND and Lux concerning this issue to safeguard against GoW making false claims. ND and Lux probably know about this by now through GoW and Genghis' mouth. GoW will likely attempt to spin this into a negative image of us and a positive one of them. We cannot remain silent on this issue.

[Ninot]

Truth is our allie, as we have done nothing wrong


to counter whatever Ghengis may be saying, i propose we post on the main PTW board about this issue, and request a mediator, for the sake of peace. well, maybe not exactly like that, but something on the main board.


But, as for what Panzer said on the issue of the trade we declined... theyr looking for a fight, i can sense it. if Trip had a trade going with them that got declined cuz our name came up, then we must seem to be the dirty vilain in GOW's history books.


as for AdaMada and the Valley of Toros, ... we CAN say we only claim that, and are still looking into claiming the south, but havent teritorally claimed it yet.

If that is so, we still look like asses, for closing off the south, but not claiming it.

But if AdaMada should resign, be fired, or become a ghostwriter, i'll be happy to take on the function of writing/sending PM's to GoW's representatives.

[ruby_maser]

Only claiming Cow Valley sounds like a good plan. So what if it is obvious we are partitioning off the continent; its not like the other teams would have done different if they had our position.

I do not agree with signing a right of passage with anyone though. Especially if we intend to use our cities as a wall between the northern teams and our southern territorial expansion.

At worst, I would hope we can delay full knowledge of the lands to the south until our REX makes it impractical for the other teams to have productive cities down there and impossible for them to get there without crossing through our territory. I think we have to be practical about not eliminating but minimizing the other teams influence in that region.

Note: Arne is the only problem we have. This little fast mover can give everything away if ND was to open up to GoW and Lux about the lands down there. I don't know if that would be in their best interests, but we better make sure it isn't.