Diplomacy Thread

[DAVOUT]

Team issue

The exchange of maps before Mapmaking is against the rules. If it is true, it is a team issue before being a diplomatic issue.

Tell me if I am wrong.

[ruby_maser]

I'm against giving GoW our jpeg too. However, I could be persuaded to change my mind if we were kind enough to throw in a strategic assessment of all our weaknesses and a current analysis of the most cost-effective, timely way for an enemy to conquer us

[Ninot]

On the issue of wether diplomatic formula vs. informal diplomacy.


with the case of GoW especially, we need diplomatic formula. With the precise nature of a regulated diplomacy system, they cannot twist our words as much, and we get more of what we want, and less of what they want.

Arnelos said informal diplomacy was better. I tend to disagree. It IS faster, but it allows for more errors, and costly mistakes in phrasing. I take for example History Guy's PM to... uhm, think it was Lux. He said somewhere that they had our blessing to explore our south. Now, they may just explore our south, but then again they may start putting settlers in it, because we blessed them. It was a very minute mistake, but they CAN run away with it.

With a team like GoW, which has already proven they can twist words, we need uniformity in our diplomacy.

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by DAVOUT

Note : This could be made cooler in adding a dozen additional causes for misunserstanding

What do you think ?

Señor Davout:
I think that would be very nice.

Our debated issues regarding attitudes could be posted there as well. So the provocative statements would be clear to the whole world, and the others will think of us as the nice guys. For now at least.
Then, it will be up to our opponents to make fools of them selves if they use aggressive diplomacy without power to back it up.

ooc: Even though I tend to threaten scaredycat-players in MP-games sometimes, I do it only when I know they will be best off submitting.


Señor Ninot:
You are right! And we must prevent them to colonize our southern areas... By REXing the northern first, it can be done.

[astrologix]

We don't know if the GoW has already uncover the territory shown in the *.jpg. I'm not happy giving them this knowdlege before Map Making, and would prefer not to trade it. I think it's against the game rules.

I think the diplomacy is becoming terribly complicated now....

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by astrologix
I think the diplomacy is becoming terribly complicated now....

I agree. This is why I suggested long ago that we stick to diplomacy options available in-game. (ROP, MPP, Alliances, Tech trades only once you have them) I understand the appeal of making more creative and dynamic deals(Non-agression, settlement, tech trades prior to completion), but look at the confusion, suspicions, and bad blood that they have created.

[DAVOUT]

dejon,

It is probable that the gamers will specialized soon in in-game diplomacy and creative diplomacy. I am convince that for the creative diplomacy to become dominant necessitates that it proves being effective (not only appealing).

This training game will deliver a beginning of answer.

About complexity, it should not be feared by gamers; Civ3 is a complex game. But it is true that on top of the mechanical complexity we were accustomed to, the added complexity of dealing with humans makes the total a bit hard to swallow ...

[Arnelos]

The complexity merely reflects the complexity of the game itself. DAVOUT's right there.

I suppose my point, the same one as I made above, is that we're shooting ourselves in the feet if we think we can artificially reduce the complexity and that will solve our problems...

Because we're operating in completely human diplomacy with the other teams, the relationships are bound to be complex and the diplomacy itself even more complex - that's just the nature of the beast.

Playing as though we were an AI just curtails our options and room for manuever... it just doesn't make any sense.

We can cope with this, it should be fine.

[Ninot]

lol, last thing I want is to be as "complex" as the AI.

The diplomacy can only be as complex, or simple, as they players behind them

With Ghengis going off the handle, suspecting us of this that and the other thing, and with our admittedly strange request for them to stay away from a rather sizeable part of the continent, things are complex. Do they need a complex form of diplomacy? Maybe not.

But I'll bet anything GoW just wants to spread bad rumours and ill-thoughts all around, not just on us. If no one trust anyone else, no one will ask questions about a declaration of war. they are setting the mood for the type of game they have always wanted.

We need to make this public with other teams, and clearly state we want a peaceful ends, with trade. But we need allibies should we have to defend ourselves from a GoW attack, or intrustion.

[Hot Mustard]

I wasn't suggesting that we attempt to put ourselves into a in-game-diplomacy-only-straight-jacket. Everyone made their preference clear long ago and I'm fine with things as they are - it certainly adds a challenging aspect to the game. I guess I was just saying - "You asked for it, you got it!" with regards to complex diplomacy.

However, I do think that we have to pull in the reigns a bit, and that creating standard communication protocols for trade agreements and official edicts is a step in the right direction. They can be as informal or formal as we like, but they must at least make it clear to the other civs the difference between 1) some single citizen of Spain, be it Lord Togas or someone else, talking, ranting, or promising the world and 2) an official team decision on a trade or stance.

[E_T]

Please post all of our current and past agreements/treaties/trades in the Diplomatic Treaty Central Records thread. THis thread is getting really TOO long to try to keep track of all of the Diplomatic Agreements that are between all of our Nations (and we have only met 3 of 6).

Eta Tamali

[DAVOUT]

dejon,

I like your idea of Official Edict of Spain. My suggested post on the main forum could be under this heading (with some changes).

[Arnelos]

Great idea, E_T

[Arnelos]

I've posted the Legoland agreement and the Lux Invicta alliance agreement in E_T's thread, but other agreements are harder to find.

Could the diplomats for each nation please post in E_T's thread the agreements we have made with each of those countries. For instance, could adaMada please post the details of all agreements with GoW, History Guy all agreements with ND, etc. - other than the agreements already posted by myself or another, of course . THANK YOU

[GodKing]

Good idea E_T.