Diplomacy Thread

[Aidun]

[ooc]So far as my expierience reaces, I know that it doesn't matter if a civ is behind in some techs and/or cities as long as they make a mass attack on another civ and conquer it. However, does this rule also fit for a ratio of 1 to 3 cities, I don't know.[/ooc]

Aidun Cian the Older

[History Guy]

Milord Togas, High Thane of Madrid,

I have despatched by quickest rider this letter, Milord, to Picahulu, Ambassador from the Arabs. It is to your specifications, sir. I hope it pleases you.

My friend Picahulu, I hail you, most wise and gracious ambassador, our friend in the north, the servant of the most wise and just Sultan Borc, Caliph of all Arabia, Ruler of Neu Theban, master of Neu Demogyptica,

First, let me say that it is good to be taking up the quill to pen this letter to you, my good friend. It is good that we now have that unpleasant business of the Warmonger lies long behind us, so that we may correspond freely, as equals and friends.

Would that I have the time to travel once again to Neu Theban on a diplomatic visit, I would be well pleased indeed.

Down to our business, my friend. Firstly, I have enclosed for your pleasure a good slice of beef, the likes of which few men beyond our borders have tasted. You and the Sultan will feast this evening, and the squid I have enclosed shall also satisfy your tastebuds, I am sure.

Your good Sultan has made known his wish to share with us the secrets of Iron Working, with which we may build fine pieces of work indeed, industry comes about from such trades, and so does well, and commerce is the safeguard against tyranny as you know, and friendship is heightened by it, and that, to we Spanairds, is most dear.

We would like to know what the Sultan would like for Iron Working, which intrigues us. Matters of science interest us greatly, especially members of the court. Our seers are find men indeed, though often they are found to be so wrapped up in computation and deep thought that any attempt to procure from them much of anything is useless, for they simply bob about speechless, contemplating all things. However, when they do open their mouths, the most wonderful things they teach us...

As for Iron Working, we should like to know, once again, what is the requested price for it. We should like to present 25 gold tonnes to your kingdom in payment for it, and this is a generous sum indeed, as you know. Rare is it when such a king's ransom is to be found. The vaults of our treasury bear all this, most of it the profit of the squid trade, or many other of our commercial pursuits, for which we are so famous.

I await your response.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador from His Magnificence, the Beneficient Majesty Togas, Thane Lord of all Spain, Overlord of the Visigoths, Flattener of the Vandals

[Togas]

History Guy,

Your letters are always a pleasure to reed.

Be sure to point out in your dialogue with ND that we have NO OTHER TECHS that we can give them. Let them know that we are dilligently researching writing, but that it is about 20 turns away. Tell them that ALL WE HAVE is 25g, and we have offered everything we have to them for Iron Working.

Let them know, if you need to, that Lux has already offered to sell us Iron Working, but they do not have it yet. Don't tell them the price of the sale to Lux, though.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

Much discussion about Lux just popping out military units - but the most recent report from our Mil advisor shows that we have a larger army - something else must be going on.

Here is a PM from Trip - they have IW:

Greetings again from Lux Invicta. We apologize for not being in contact for so long, but other matters have taken our attention.

We have acquired the technology of Iron Working, and would be willing to share it with you for a certain sum. My team and I are coming up with a proposition which we will hope that you will accept. Our response should be swift.

Yours,
Trip, Administrator Lux Invicta Demo Game

and my response

Trip, Administrator Lux Invicta Demo Game,

We are glad to hear from and also apologize for not being in contact. We hope nothing dire has occurred in your civ. We are also glad to hear you have Iron Working already - sooner than I had anticipated - sounds like some good things are happening to speed your research.

I must also follow up to see if The Ottomans are willing to sign the proposed alliance. Please let me know your thoughts.

I await your reply.

Thank you,

jdjdjd of España - Ambassador to the Ottomans

[Aidun]

I wonder what's really going on with lux. I suggest we'd make a thread concerning lux's secret of being the smallest but seeming to develop quite well.

Aidun Cian the Older

[Togas]

IMPORTANT:

GoW has a warrior in our territory. I'm sure they're merely scouting, but we need to handle this appropriately.

adaMada -- Send an urgent PM to GoW saying that:

Representatives from The Explorer's Guild greet their warrior group as they exit the Jungle and inform them that this small valley they have stepped into is Spain. Tell them that we have control of the region south of the jungle all the way to the western ocean and that we are currently settling this region. Let them know that T.E.G. is here to protect this region. They may stay and feast with us tonight and exchange stories, because GoW are FRIENDS OF SPAIN, and we hope to continue our good friendship. We also hope that our recent gift of gold to their nation has found favor with their people and shown them how much we value their friendship. However, In spite of our great friendship, we cannot allow them to travel any further into Spain. It is a matter of pride to the Spanish people and their Despot.

Say that Togas has decreed that no foreign warrior groups or scouts may travel through Spain. Our warriors will enforce this decree if necessary. We will trade maps with them upon discovering Mapmaking, if they are interested in our geography.

We will give them fresh water and supplies for their trip back through the jungle. We wish them well on their journey but cannot allow them to travel any further into Spanish territory.


History Guy -- Get back to ND and tell them that our warrior outside of their territory is merely exploring the jungle and is taking great care to stay out of their country. Ask them again what they want for Iron Working, if anything. Also tell them that we want to work out our borders and negotiate with them about future settlement sites. We want to coexist peacefully with them. Stress to them that El Valle De Los Torros to the south of the jungle is Spanish territory and we will not settle north of it. We hope to use the jungle as a border between us.


jdjdjd -- Get back to Trip about the Iron Working sale. I just offered him Alphabet and 25g ... he should offer us Iron Working in exchange, per our discussion.

Let me know what he says.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

I will add that the PM to GoW must be sent quickly. Because the evening has just started and the turn goes around quickly at this time of day. It will be GoW's turn within 12 hours, I would guess.

[adaMada]

I'm on it. Thanks for the PM and heads-up Togas. I'll address a PM to Panzer but will also copy Ghengis to save whatever time we can. Will copy Togas on the PM, which he has my permission to post (or not post) at his choice

Working on writing it as of now -- should be done shortly.

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Message has been sent, basically writing a message based on Togas' outline and then adding in a ton of roleplay (such as a bit about how we 'fear allowing any foreign clubs near our children, as they are liable to place their hands where they do not belong'). Togas, let me know what you think, and if I need to send anything else. Throughout the Roleplay, I tried to phrase it as nicely as is possible, considering that we were asking them to turn around and haul tail back to their side of the jungle .

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

My message to GoW

Togas,
Your PM box is full. Considering it's actually nothing that shouldn't be posted here anyway, here's the message I sent to Panzer and copied Ghengis on.

Dear Panzer,
How do things bode in the fruitful lands of GoW? It’s been far too long since our nations have conversed at any length, and it is a pity that we’ve lacked an opportunity to sit around the bargaining table as friends in the past weeks.

I’ve been informed by Togas, our Great and Illustrious Depot, that representatives from Our Explorer’s Guild have made contact with your warrior group as you’ve left the jungle. Our explorers greet your warrior group, and are especially reverent to be in the presence of such masters of war, but we regret to inform you that the small valley your troops now occupy is part of the Spanish homeland. We consider the region from south of the jungle to the western ocean to be our home. Indeed, our exploration guild has taken the mission of protecting our boarder upon itself, and was keeping watch over our homes and families along our border when they had the pleasure of meeting your troops.

I’ve been asked to inform you that you’re welcome to stay and feast with us tonight, as España is proud to call Glory of War a friend. Indeed, I believe our Depot recently saw it fit to engrave a statement of our friendship in gold and deliver it to you as a gift, wise and great as he is. In spite of this magnificent friendship, however, we cannot allow your warrior group any further into España. It is not only a matter of pride to the Spanish people and their Depot, but we are also weary of allowing armed troops through the lands of our children, as we fear for their safety in the presence of clubs – children have the most wretched tendency to place their hands upon places they don’t belong. Indeed, Togas has decreed that no foreign warrior groups or scouts may travel through Spain else they wish to endure the wraith of the Spanish Armies, and no exceptions can be made in this matter, even for such valued and respected friends.

We understand and admire your desire to learn of our lands and geography, and would suggest that we may soon be able to offer alternatives rather than sending scouts to report. As you are doubtlessly aware, both of our respective scholars have been mumbling about some newfangled technology of ‘mapmaking’ for some time, which would allow us to give you the same details you would learn for yourself were your warriors permitted to precede. Once our scholars have broken the mysteries of this knowledge, our ‘map’ could be transported far and wide, and we would be happy to exchange maps with you at that time.

If you wish, we will happily supply your warrior group with fresh water and supplies for their trip back through the jungle. We are indeed sorry that we cannot permit them any further into Spanish land at this time, and we hope that we will eventually see the day where all children can frolic comfortably, with the knowledge that warriors of all clans will take it upon their clubs to protect them and do them no harm. We hope that you understand our situation.

Best wishes from Iberia,
adaMada
Togas’ Ambassador to Glory of War

NOTE: I've sent this to GhengisFarb as well, as I was asked to make contact about the matter as soon as possible, and I wanted to ensure that the message reach your team as soon as is possible, considering the quick turn around of most turns in these times.

-- adaMada

[Hot Mustard]

Very well written, adaMada! Firm, but friendly.

[ruby_maser]

I agree Good job, Ada.

This is an interesting affair; I wait with high hopes to hear GoW's reply and that their warriors show as much respect for us as we do for them.

[Togas]

I received the following message from Calc II

Okay, Trip told me that we had an agreement of alphabet + 25 gold for Iron working. And I thought about if we could get a better tech instead of tech plus gold. ( I was hoping to trade writing for IW) But because we don't have alphabet, this is not possible, and trading alphabet PLUS writing for Iron working is undoable. So I came up with an idea that I proposed to trip which may or maynot sound good to you. First off, we could not offer you iron working during the turn we recieved the offer of 25 gold plus alphabet from you. The offer window popped up before we got the message of discovering IW So we had to cancel it. So I encouraged trip to propose new deal and see if you would like it. Trip was supposed to send the offer to you. Sorry if he has. Then this enitre PM is redundant. Just ignore it.

We want writing cause it opens up tech trees, which gives us more option to research. We cant get writing because we dont have alphabet.

So, if you can give us alphabet and writing, we will give you iron working for now. When we have writing, we will be able to research more things with more flexibility for tech buddying.
The next time we swap tech, we will repay the debt with 2 techs for 1, but since these are higher level on the tech tree, you should be able to benefit slightly from acquiring slightly more expensive techs.

I know the problem is that you give us more first and expect us to give more later to compensate the first trade. Actually, we'd be giving you more overall, but the question remains, can you guys trust us? We Lux Invicta would say that we will keep our word and payback the tech debt on the next tech swap, but its upto you. If you dont have enough faith in us, dont accept this wild proposal. It's okay. We can understand how this could be difficult to accept and we can always stick to the original plan. However, if you agree to this, I think this could only pay off good in that it will stregthen our trust within one another and you will benefit more overall. Our benefit is that we get writing so that we can open up paths to tech trees. In the long run our benefit should benefit you as well since we can tech swap a better tech.

So what do you think? We have offered Iron working to you in our turn because your offer had to be cancelled. If you like the sound of new propoal plan, offer alphabet and writing. If you would like to stick to original propasal, offer the alphabet + 25 gold again. Either way, lets continue having good fruitful relationship between the lux invicta team and espana(roleplay)!

This is my reply to him

Calc II,

Yours is the first PM I've received, however, it is very likely that Trip sent a PM to jdjdjd of my team, as he is the ambassador to Lux Invicta.

Please get back to me so that I am clear on what your team is proposing. Are you saying:

We can either trade you Alphabet + 25g for Iron Working now.

OR

trade you Alphabet for Iron Working now, then Trade you Writing for another tech in the future ??? What tech would you propose? Would it be just "any tech" or a specific tech?

We do not have Writing yet. We are currently researching it, though, and expect to have it in less than 20 turns.

Please let me know as soon as you can so that we know if we should offer Alphabet & 25g on our next turn, or only Alphabet.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Looks good on our part. They're going to stick with the original deal or offer us something better. Frankly, if my #2 proposal to them is true, I'm included to trade 2 techs for 2 techs and I don't care what tech they throw in ... any of them would be worth it. We get the benefit from either trade option.

--Togas

[E_T]

sounds like he was wanting both Alphabet AND Writing for IW now and they would give us some other tech at a later date.

I have 2 problems with that:
1) you can't trade both of these at the same time (that's what it was looking like to me as for what he had written).

2) can we trust them to have a tech that we would want, some time in the future, if we give them Writing as soon as we have it?

After re-reading Calcs rambling he's proposing us trading 2 techs for one now (our Alph & Writ for their IW) and then in the next tech trade, it would get 2 techs for our 1. How can we even be sure that they would have 2 techs to trade us.

Sounds like the Lux people have invented a new line of work in this young age, Confidence Artist.

Letusa Eta Tamali

[Hot Mustard]

In response to his question, "can you guys trust us?", the answer has to be No. We don't know if we can trust them yet, and I do not think this proposition is a good first way for them to earn our trust. With trust and respect, you start small and work your way up.

If they have just finished IW, how long would we wait for the other tech? By the time they have completed another tech, we may already have acquired (via trade, huts) all suitable ones. Especially with Mysticism already in hand.

I suggest we tell them that they must start smaller with earning our trust, and that they will do so by honoring the original plan: IW for Alphabet and 25 gold.