Diplomacy Thread

[ruby_maser]

I agree that it would be risky to assume that they will honor their commitments and trade us two techs for one later.

I think we need more information and, possibly, a formal agreement on this matter.... if it was decided to go ahead with it (though I am leaning against it). They should be asked to clarify what techs they would intend to research if they had writing and what they would foresee offering us down the road.

Obviously, if they were to research MapMaking, they would be competing with our interests. However, they may be after Literature and cheap libraries (they are Scientific, afterall); this would definitely increase their ability to trade techs with us down the road, assuming they actually plan on building them

Anyway, I don't know if I would trust them this much. On the other hand, I am not in love with the idea of us depleting our treasury as much as the 25 gold of the original deal does.

[jdjdjd]

No PM from Trip to me.

I like Togas second option i.e. Alpa for IW and then Writing later for another, if they go for it.

If they try to get out of our first deal, then maybe they should no that others have offered IW.

lets see what calc sayd in response

[Aidun]

I agree with Dejon. We shouldn't offer techs when we are unsure to get as worthy back from Lux. I don't like this kind of trading.
Think also about another scenario: what if we get in war with Lux, are they then still willing to fulfil their promise, I doubt they will. Agreements do not count, when war occurs. They are "Just a scrap of paper" as Wilhelm II said when he declared the war to Belgium in 1914.
Let's trade Al + 25 gold against IW. If not, then we won't trade, it's all we have.

Aidun Cian the Older

[Togas]

Calc II wants to sell us IW for 2 techs. However, he failed to realize that we don't have Writing yet. I played along with his request but spun it slightly. Notice how I responded to him in my letter...

We either go with the original deal, OR we give them Alphabet for Iron Working NOW, and Writing for X Tech later.

Either way we win.

They'll go back to the original deal once they figure out that we can't give them Writing now.

--Togas

[Togas]

It seems that whenever I enter the Poly chat on mIRC, I get independent chat requests rather often. Today on my lunch break I chatted with both Nimitz (of Legoland) and Big Furry Monster (of Lux) each in separate chats.

Nimitz reports that they have not found the end of their lands yet. The island is rather large and hammer shapped. The hammerhead being on the top. They have sighted our continent but their close connection is to the north. They have plans to build a coastal city on their East Coast. They have 3 cities. They are researching Writing and will have it in 11 turns.

They will research mapmaking next.

They seem to be in a peaceful race with us for the same tech, and they are in the lead. They will seek out contacts once they have mapmaking and will easily find GoW and ND, both of whom they've had informal contact with already. It's doubtful that we'll be able to monopolize our contact with Legoland. They'll make contacts on their own and they will likely be the first civ with boats.

As for BFM and Lux, he says they will approve our alliance treaty. He says they think GoW knows about it and wonders how they found out. I wondered as well as we haven't said anything and hopefully they haven't. We agreed that it should remain a secret.

He said they would give us IW for Alph + 25g. They are researching horseback riding ... so it's obvious that they bought IW from ND. He would like to trade Horseback Riding for Writing. I told him that was acceptable, but I'd like some feedback on that. He says they will go Mysticism next. I told him we'd go Mapmaking. I told him we couldn't agree to a trade beyond Writing because I wasn't sure what other offers we might get, but I told him we'd agree to TRY as much as possible to research different paths so that we both could trade with each other.

I get the feeling that they're going for Monarchy.

He indicated that there is not much settling room in the north and that they are in competition with ND for the good sites. He had no problems with us settling the Valley south of Sierra Brilliantes, but thought ND might go there first.

--Togas

[DAVOUT]

With our wide expanse of land to protect, horseback riding must be obtained as soon as possible. Nevertheless the parity should be checked.

[jdjdjd]

excellent news re: lux

[adaMada]

Reply from Panzer:

I await instructions as to how I should proceed. I honestly don't know how big the land really is -- can't get a good a feel for that from screenshots -- and it sounds like they at least took it well.

-- adaMada

(paraphrasing)

Dear Panzer,

You are encroaching on Roleplay's territory. We value you as a friend, but do not want you neer to us. Would you like to trade maps later?

Best wishes from Iberia,
adaMada
Togas’ Ambassador to Glory of War

adaMada:

I thank you for warning us we were getting close to your lands. I am glad we did not just stumble upon Madrid and you thought we were going to take it. We have a nonagression pact, remember?

I hope you will allow us to either stay where they are or move back for the time being. As much as I hope we can resolve this soon, I realise it might take one or two turns to sort it out. Our team is currently discussing one or two agreements that I hope would be satisfactory to both teams.

One question I ask of the Roleplay team, is approximatly how big is this territory you have set aside for yourselves? The Glory of War understands that you want room to expand, but does not think teams should claim territory unnecisarily. How many resources does this territory have in it? I think these questions are fair, and if the Glory of War had any such territorial claims, we would be happy to answer them.

Thank you for your time;

Panzer32,
Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

[Ninot]

They are looking for a target


REALLY... what else can you take from

How many resources does this territory have in it?

Of course, half of what they say is reasonable. no team can really declare land their own till its behind borders.

But we can't answer these questions to the best of our ability without giving GOW info they might like to use against us.

[E_T]

They DO know about the Silks, but I beleave that they will continue to explore. We need to keep an Eye on them, but still try to explore. As long as they stay away from the Horses until we get the New City built, it should be o.k.

The main Danger, IMHO is that they will sit right on the Horses (or the site of the city) ans denige us getting to the Resource.

We need to tread carefully with this.

Eta Tamali

[Ninot]

Originally posted by E_T


The main Danger, IMHO is that they will sit right on the Horses (or the site of the city) ans denige us getting to the Resource.

Eta Tamali

We can always plop a settler down next to the explorer


however, if that should happen... hehehe, i suggest we prepare for war ASAP.

[jdjdjd]

Great news from BFM - the deal he ad Togas banged out

Togas (Espana) and BigFurryMonster (Lux Invicta) agreed on the following deals:

* The Alliance, as written down by jdjdjd (see below), was agreed upon. Special attention was paid to the fact that both

parties will keep it secret from other Civs.

* We will trade Horseback Riding (from LI) for Writing (from RP). This will be done as soon as RP has obtained Writing,

which will be in about 12 turns from now.

* LI will research Mysticism; RP will research another tech (possibly MapMaking) for those to be traded.

* We will always try to research different techs.

* We will not scout each other's territories (as agreed by Trip and Togas earlier).

[ruby_maser]

I think it is time for some of our explorers to start considering returning. Señor DAVOUT was right about a city right on the edge of the jungle having no line of sight or "killing zone" of relatively defenseless terrain. Our cities their will need to be well garrisoned ASAP to avoid tempting roving scouts.

The next settler from Pamplona is probably 8-9 turns away. It will need an escort if it is going in the direction of ND and GoW scouts, and it will need one immediately in order to not delay its journey to the next city site (the horses, IIRC).

As to what to reply to GoW, I cannot say. They are going to find out the extent of the territory to our south eventually. I will leave that to the diplomats and hope they are more slippery than their counterparts on the other teams.

[Togas]

On the Lux Trade deal I banged out with BFM over lunch...

Togas (Espana) and BigFurryMonster (Lux Invicta) agreed on the following deals:

* The Alliance, as written down by jdjdjd (see below), was agreed upon. Special attention was paid to the fact that both parties will keep it secret from other Civs.

True.

* We will trade Horseback Riding (from LI) for Writing (from RP). This will be done as soon as RP has obtained Writing, which will be in about 12 turns from now.

This was not a promise but I told him it sounded like a good idea.


* LI will research Mysticism; RP will research another tech (possibly MapMaking) for those to be traded.

This is NOT TRUE. I told him we'd research Mapmaking, he said they'd research Mysticism. He proposed a trade when we got them I told him we'd have to see, it depended on what other trades were going on. This aspect is not official (for obvious reasons. Eventually we're going to have to tell them we got Mysticism, but I don't want to tell them until AFTER we buy Iron Working).

* We will always try to research different techs.

True. I capitalized TRY. It may not always be in our best interest, but we'll try to do our best.

* We will not scout each other's territories (as agreed by Trip and Togas earlier).

Agreed.

jdjdjd Get back to BFM on this. Say you spoke with me and verified what I verified, and inform him politely of the differences, and toss in some good friendly language, etc etc.

--Togas

[Togas]

I hope you will allow us to either stay where they are or move back for the time being. As much as I hope we can resolve this soon, I realise it might take one or two turns to sort it out. Our team is currently discussing one or two agreements that I hope would be satisfactory to both teams.

They're stalling, but that's OK. They won't discover anything important in a turn or two. In fact they'll see what I WANT them to see ... all those large, unfriendly, unsettleable mountains.

We should diplomatically and patiently try to work this out while they creep around and get the idea that we really don't have any good land ... and hopefully leave before they get through those nasty mountains.

adaMada please engage them in a peaceful dialogue and ask them nicely again to not wander around in El Valley De Los Torros. Tell them that we found this valley several thousand years ago, have one city here already and are building our next settler group. Make some noise about how there is little decent land near Madrid, and we have chosen to make this valley our home, and we feel very uneasy about them wandering about in our home. Ask them WHY they would be wandering about? Are they trying to discover the best way to attack us? Why would they want to, we are their friends! Are they trying to search for huts? We have already found all of the huts in this region. If they wants maps we can peacefully trade maps with them. We feel they are being agressive and disrespectful of our wishes and of Togas's wishes. Why would they treat us so?

One question I ask of the Roleplay team, is approximatly how big is this territory you have set aside for yourselves? The Glory of War understands that you want room to expand, but does not think teams should claim territory unnecisarily. How many resources does this territory have in it? I think these questions are fair, and if the Glory of War had any such territorial claims, we would be happy to answer them.

Tell them that El Valle De Los Torros has a jungle to the north and is surrounded on two sides by mountains, on the west by the sea. It is sizeable ... can hold about 4 cities, has cattle and horses and dyes. It is 7 spaces wide, and 4 spaces deep, at its widest points. It is THE HEARTLAND of Spain, has the most Spanish people living in it, along with most of our army and all of our worker force. Within 20 turns we will have 2 more cities built within it. Within 30 turns it will be fully settled.

It is not merely some land that we might want to expand into, it is a place we have settled and are currently still settling.. It is not much, but it is our homeland, and we will do whatever is necessary to protect it.

Furthermore, we respect your land and your borders. We would not walk around your lands and we could have easily done so. Will you not show us the same respect?

.... Write something along these lines.

--Togas