Foreign Affairs Consulate: Gathering Storm

[UnOrthOdOx]

I just PMd zeit again asking if it would be possible for a chat tonight (Sat 0300 GMT).

[Panzer32]

ok, I can probably make it.

[UnOrthOdOx]

[[GoW]UnO] ready?
[notyoueither] yes
[[GoW]MasterZen] back
[[GoW]UnO] Ok.
[[GoW]UnO] WOuld it be safe to say GS policy is influenced by their
experience with Vox?
[nbarclay] In what way?
[[GoW]UnO] in general
[notyoueither] yes. and with everyone else as well
[[GoW]UnO] This is not meant as an insult to your team, but our
policy is influenced by our interaction with other teams as well.
[notyoueither] no offence taken
[[GoW]UnO] We would like an agreement here and now that anything said
in this chat will be kept utterly secret.
[[GoW]UnO] No telling other teams, hinting, or anything.
[[GoW]MasterZen] emphasis on "utterly"
[notyoueither] granted. the same is returned by GoW?
[[GoW]UnO] we have had troubles.
[[GoW]MasterZen] yes
[[GoW]UnO] absolutely.
[[GoW]Panzer32] Gladly returned by GoW
[notyoueither] secret from our team as well?
[[GoW]UnO] No.
[notyoueither] ok. thanks
[notyoueither] please continue
[[GoW]UnO] Make sure your TEAM understands not to leak it either.
[notyoueither] agreed
[[GoW]UnO] we are agreed then.
[[GoW]UnO] Ok, we have outstanding things from the last chat.
[[GoW]UnO] but lets set them aside for one minute.
[notyoueither] ok
[[GoW]UnO] We would like to talk of the status of bob.
[[GoW]UnO] Have you heard anything new?
[notyoueither] nothing concrete. just impressions.
[[GoW]UnO] can you share them?
[notyoueither] well, it seems things are moving towards action. based
on behaviour. that is all
[[GoW]UnO] Let us say, we have been assured that there will be action
within ten turns.
[notyoueither] hmmm. we are not surprised
[[GoW]UnO] GoW has taken what steps it can to ensure we are not the
recipients of this action.
[notyoueither] can you be more specific?
[[GoW]Panzer32] be patient
[notyoueither] ok
[[GoW]Panzer32]
[[GoW]UnO] now, it is our feeling you are the best choice of allies
for the future.
[[GoW]UnO] We would like to bring you in on this.
[[GoW]UnO] However.
[[GoW]UnO] Before we can say details, we would REALLY like an NAP
[[GoW]UnO] just as insurance.
[notyoueither] understood. you mnean before the conversation proceeds?
[[GoW]UnO] Before specifics are given, yes.
[[GoW]MasterZen] let's just say that the conversation will get much
juicier
[notyoueither] one moment, please
[[GoW]MasterZen] we had been told by Shiber and Zeit in our last chat
that the NAP was going to be discussed by your guys
[notyoueither] we have been discussing. the discussion has been
positive
[notyoueither] i am confering with nathan.
[[GoW]MasterZen] np
[notyoueither] do you have a length of nap in mind?
* CrazyGhengis slobers uncontrollably
[[GoW]MasterZen] hahaha
[[GoW]UnO] 30 turns preferable, but negotiable.
[[GoW]MasterZen] would 30 turns be alright with you?
[notyoueither] one moment
[[GoW]Panzer32]
[[GoW]UnO] Glory of Negotiation...
[[GoW]MasterZen] Glory of Diplomacy
[[GoW]UnO] I've been damn busy today...
[[GoW]MasterZen] Glory of Chats
[notyoueither] 30 turns
[[GoW]MasterZen] is that agreed then?
[[GoW]UnO] You agree?
[notyoueither] to be kept secret. absolutely secret
[[GoW]MasterZen] totally secret
[[GoW]UnO] Of course
[nbarclay] Yes.
[notyoueither] done
[[GoW]MasterZen] I won't tell my mother
[[GoW]UnO] I wont tell my wife.
[[GoW]Panzer32] :frienshipdance:
[[GoW]MasterZen] Panzer, don't you tell your kid sister!
[[GoW]Panzer32] of course not
[[GoW]UnO] Very well.
[notyoueither] Gathering Storm agree to a 30 turn NAP with Glory of
War, to be kept absolutely secret by both teams
[[GoW]UnO] We can proceed then.
[[GoW]Panzer32] so this is 30 turns starting at 70 BC?
[notyoueither] one moment
[[GoW]UnO] Or 50?
[notyoueither] 70bc sounds good
[[GoW]UnO] 70 it is.
[notyoueither] 50 if you prefer
[[GoW]MasterZen] 70 is current turn?
[[GoW]UnO] yes.
[notyoueither] we have done, but yes for some
[[GoW]MasterZen] has GS played its turn?
[[GoW]UnO] 50 then.
[notyoueither] i believe so
[[GoW]MasterZen] ok, then 50
[notyoueither] ok
[nbarclay] It looks like GS is the only one that's played 70 BC so
far.
* [GoW]UnO can stop sweating now...
[[GoW]MasterZen] allright, now for the REALLY fun part...
[notyoueither] ok
[[GoW]MasterZen] any guesses at who's the target?
[notyoueither] us?
[[GoW]UnO] sure, guess.
[[GoW]MasterZen] damn
[[GoW]MasterZen] odds of GS are like 200:1
[notyoueither] we are not urprised
[[GoW]UnO] odds of TAKING gs anyway.
[[GoW]UnO] The Mouth in the South is goign down.
[notyoueither] when do they go?
[[GoW]UnO] This was all finalized very recently
[[GoW]UnO] based on a number of things.
[nbarclay] You and ND allied against RP?
[[GoW]UnO] yes.
[notyoueither] what?
[notyoueither] oh, that was nathan
[[GoW]UnO] You are surprised then?
* [GoW]MasterZen has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[notyoueither] a bit
[[GoW]UnO] interesting.
[notyoueither] looking at the map, but not when considering the people
[[GoW]UnO] We got the impression you were leaning support in that
direction.
[[GoW]UnO] yes, the map is a concern.
[nbarclay] We'd thought of the possibility but were skeptical about
whether ND would want Riders in their territory and about how RP's
territory could feasibly be divided.
[[GoW]UnO] and part of our desire to include you.
[notyoueither] are you asking for our help?
* CrazyGhengis thinks Roleplay hogs too many luxuries and land for
just one team
* [GoW]UnO don't like their diplomacy
* CrazyGhengis wants to kill the crazy HippieNazis
[notyoueither] haha
[[GoW]UnO] We are inviting you to Bob.
* MasterZen has joined #GoW_CoFA
[[GoW]UnO]
[MasterZen] sorry about that
[[GoW]UnO] there are several options.
* [GoW]Panzer32 sets mode: +o MasterZen
[notyoueither] we are paying attention
[[GoW]UnO] Our deal with ND states that Lego is the next target
[[GoW]UnO] We feel they would not object to assistance as long as you
agree to leave after.
* CrazyGhengis thinks EVERYONE should gang up on Lego
[notyoueither] leave?
[[GoW]UnO] Leave bob
[[GoW]UnO] not retain cities.
[nbarclay] You're saying you want us to spend resources in a war we
won't be allowed to claim any land from?
[[GoW]UnO] Otherwise, they may protest.
[notyoueither] that would be difficult.
[MasterZen] but you can perhaps farm for some leaders
[[GoW]UnO] I know.
[notyoueither] we are not mercenaries
[notyoueither] war is costly
[[GoW]Panzer32] ah, but we are
[[GoW]UnO] we gain a third team to head to Lego.
[nbarclay] If we were interested in fighting just for leader farming,
we wouldn't have made peace with Vox when we did.
* CrazyGhengis thinks GS could attack Roleplay as an excuse to move
troops closer for an assault on southern Legoland
[[GoW]UnO] Another option is sailing some galleys in that direction.
[[GoW]UnO] just galleys.
[MasterZen] look we don't want to push into doing something you don't
want. It was just an idea.
[notyoueither] ok. we will consider it
[nbarclay] Also, if RP has too much land and too many luxuries for
one team now, who has too much/many if you and ND carve them up and
claim all of that for yourselves?
[[GoW]UnO] We thought you may want to join in a dogpile.
* CrazyGhengis thinks GS could make some deal to sell any cities they
acquire on Bob, some sort of "bounty"
[[GoW]Panzer32] CrazyGhengis thinks too much
[notyoueither] Pop is power
[notyoueither] it is that simple
[[GoW]UnO] We know.
[[GoW]UnO] We are not entirely opposed to the idea, just not sure of
ND's position at the moment.
[[GoW]UnO] have NOT discussed you entering.
[notyoueither] ok. of course what we discuss here is not final
[CrazyGhengis] But any cities you build on Bob would have high
corruption whereas you build the Forbidden Palace on Legoland and
form a second provence
[MasterZen] actually just wanted to get your thoughts on it
[[GoW]UnO] The reason we would like GS units on Bob, is what would
happen if ND backstabbed us after RP?
[notyoueither] very good q
[[GoW]UnO] Bringing you in offers assurance, keep a balance of power.
[MasterZen] even if it's only symbolic
[[GoW]UnO] In agreeing to leave, I am sure something can be worked
that you get the largest chunk of Lego, or something so it is all
equal in the end.
[[GoW]UnO] Perhaps ND will allow some territory as well.
[[GoW]UnO] Or at least lux outpost cities....
[notyoueither] perhaps. we should look into that
[[GoW]UnO] This is all up in the air.
[notyoueither] understood
[nbarclay] One possibility might be for us to stay on Bob until we
get set up on Lego (just brainstorming for the moment).
[[GoW]UnO] Sure.
[[GoW]Panzer32] mabye a ND-GOW-GS chat is in order sometime in the
future?
[[GoW]UnO] Definately!
[[GoW]UnO] AND NOT 12 NOON DAMN IT
[[GoW]UnO] ND times suck
[MasterZen] I like them... that's when I wake up :P
[[GoW]UnO] You are sick
[[GoW]UnO] lets go 4 am :P
[MasterZen] YOU are sick :P
[notyoueither] heh
[[GoW]Panzer32] lets talk about chat times later, please
[[GoW]UnO] Now.
[[GoW]UnO] We are actively negotiating with RP right now.
[[GoW]UnO] At the moment they do not suspect.
[[GoW]UnO] WE WILL NOT BE BREAKING ANYTHING WE HAVE SIGNED
[[GoW]UnO] but, I am sure you will hear that we did.
[notyoueither] ahhhh
[notyoueither] the thread
[MasterZen] and all contracts with other civs will be respected
[notyoueither] cover for stall
[[GoW]UnO] thread?
[notyoueither] Moo
[MasterZen] haha
[[GoW]UnO] oh mine.
[[GoW]UnO] no, I am taking over RP negotiations.
[notyoueither] oh. ok. well it would be a good stall
[notyoueither] just a q
[[GoW]UnO] MZ did of course step down and allow me to.
[notyoueither] is the war with rp intended to be final?
[MasterZen] I had him start a "Master Zen rulez" thread in our forum

[[GoW]UnO] Yes.
[notyoueither] thought so. just checking
[notyoueither] do you know how lego will react?
[[GoW]UnO] We are not of the opinion that a trimmed team offers
anything to the game other than annoyances for diplo crap
[[GoW]UnO] Lego is in bed with RP
[[GoW]UnO] RP wants us to ally against you, btw
[notyoueither] won't that complicate things for you?
[[GoW]UnO] not lego
[[GoW]UnO] still
[notyoueither] the map dictates that
[MasterZen] they will most likely offer financial assistance
[[GoW]UnO] I doubt they will send units
[MasterZen] and perhaps sell them Chivarly
[[GoW]UnO] Not for...8 turns?
[notyoueither] they have it?
[[GoW]UnO] without violating a contract
[[GoW]UnO] With you on board, we know who would have violated.
[notyoueither] we would never violate an agreement
[notyoueither] have the team would quit
[[GoW]UnO] MZ? did that go final?
[notyoueither] *half
[[GoW]Panzer32] Uno, 15 turn NTA it was (not sure the year; one or
two turns after trade to GS)
[MasterZen] it had been previously negotiated. Much like our own
feud-chiv agreement
[notyoueither] ok
[notyoueither] so, i take it the upgrades are nearing completion?
[MasterZen] more or less yes
[notyoueither] do you have a 0 hour in mind
[[GoW]UnO] 10 BC we attack.
[[GoW]UnO] You, when you can, if you decide.
[MasterZen] if you want
[notyoueither] it would take us slighly longer, if we decide
[[GoW]UnO] would be a weakened civ away from the front...
[notyoueither] i think
[MasterZen] you could even just send some galleys to scare them and
lure some troops to the south
[[GoW]UnO] Galleys would be great.
[[GoW]UnO] if nothing else.
[notyoueither] we will consider these things
[notyoueither] q.
[[GoW]UnO] Yes?
[notyoueither] do you have nap with lego?
[[GoW]UnO] no.
[notyoueither] nd?
[[GoW]UnO] ND does.
[[GoW]UnO] bullied them into it.
[MasterZen] gotta love those krauts
[notyoueither] lego bullied? nd bullied?
[[GoW]UnO] ND bullied
[notyoueither] really?
[nbarclay] I have to wonder exactly what a NAP a team gets bullied
into is likely to be worth.
[MasterZen] everything that's in writing is worth its word to us at
least
[[GoW]UnO] got tired of Lego poping all the barb huts so landed a few
horses to kill barbs...lego freaked. tried to hire us.
[notyoueither] haha
[[GoW]UnO] Never did finalize that proposal...
[[GoW]UnO] else we would not be talking here.
[notyoueither] which one?
[[GoW]UnO] Lego.
[MasterZen] them hiring us
[notyoueither] ahh
* Trip` has joined #gow_cofa
[[GoW]UnO] Your late trip.
[Trip`] you didn't remind me :P
[[GoW]Panzer32] There are no "eyes" in TEAM
[[GoW]UnO] Man, I take SPECIAL action to inform you...
[Trip`] Panzer: but there is a "me"
[[GoW]UnO] monumentous chat I say...
[[GoW]UnO] Must come I say...
[[GoW]Panzer32] read the #@$% thread!!
[Trip`] I'm a busy man
* MasterZen slaps Trip` around a bit with a large trout
[MasterZen] ah, there, just had to do it :P
[[GoW]UnO] make or break day...I tell you...
[Trip`] is everyone gone? :P
* [GoW]UnO shakes his head.
[MasterZen] um, don't you see the people list?
[Trip`] you seem to have scared all of the GS members away
[Trip`] threaten then with Riders? :P
[[GoW]UnO] NYE and nathan are here.
[Trip`] "yeah, we landed a couple horses last time, wait til you see
what we have this time!" ;P
[[GoW]Panzer32] Trip, you threatned them away.
[notyoueither] here
[[GoW]Panzer32] ok, where were we?
[Trip`] NYE: ISDG save
[Trip`] chop chop
[MasterZen] this not ISDG :P
[notyoueither] yes. thanks, trip
[Trip`]
[MasterZen] ok, back on the subject
[MasterZen] just a review for the Tripmeister
[MasterZen] 1) 30 turn NAP. Agreed. Secret
[[GoW]UnO] absolutely secret.
[MasterZen] 2) We attack RP on 10 BC. You are invited to join but of
course not required
[Trip`] I'm invited?
[MasterZen] 3) We look for a ND-GoW-GS chat sometime in the future to
start hammering out the details of the Lego plot
[[GoW]UnO] Yes, you can get some revenge too Trip.
[nbarclay] Sure, you can take the mighty Luxian armies to abandon any
cities that RP leaves undefended.
[MasterZen] "The Lego Plot" has a nice ring to it..
[Trip`] haha
[[GoW]UnO] We can send that worker down to...um well...
[Trip`] Lego plot!
[MasterZen] btw
[MasterZen] we're not going to do no BS excuses for this war
[[GoW]UnO] NO.
[MasterZen] nothing like Betahound...
[MasterZen] it's war
[MasterZen] we're the Glory of War
[notyoueither] good plan
[MasterZen] take the hint
[[GoW]UnO] This is civ, they have lux, resources, we want, we think
we can take.
[notyoueither] heh
[[GoW]UnO] period, end of story.
[MasterZen] although I do expect some nice and fun trash talking and
avatar wars
[Trip`] the story only ends after the battlefields are cleared
[notyoueither] i would imagine
[MasterZen] it won't be easy
[CrazyGhengis] I want my top ten dammit!
[MasterZen] RP will be a hard nut to crack
[notyoueither] no, but you will have the time of the game
[[GoW]UnO] GF, post it in SPIN
[MasterZen] we respect our enemy, and do not underestimate him. At
least I don't
[MasterZen] but we are confident victory will be on our side
[notyoueither] very good plan
[Trip`] so what happens now?
[MasterZen] we also will keep you guys informed
[notyoueither] that would be good
[MasterZen] whenever you need to talk to one of us about anything
we'll arrange a quick chat
[notyoueither] alright
[[GoW]UnO] MZ will be your quick reference.
[notyoueither] same here. i am available most evenings
[[GoW]Panzer32] ok then; friends?
[MasterZen] yeah, me an nye are always online at night for the ISDG
[notyoueither] yes. friends
[MasterZen] communication is the least of our problems
[[GoW]UnO] Consider our invitation.
[notyoueither] we will
[[GoW]UnO] We will set up a chat with ND
[MasterZen] at least send some galleys to scare the **** out of them
... :P
[notyoueither] good plan. let's coordinate that time, uno.
[MasterZen] we totally respect your decision to not involve yourself
if you don't feel like it
[[GoW]UnO] Yes.
[[GoW]UnO] Panzer, you are the ND contact?
[notyoueither] ok. is there anything else?
[MasterZen] I guess not
[[GoW]Panzer32] huh? I guess so
[notyoueither] this moved farily quick
[[GoW]UnO] Ok...can we shoot for Sunday?
[[GoW]UnO] Monday?
[notyoueither] that would be good
[notyoueither] sunday
[[GoW]UnO] ****,
[notyoueither] oops
[[GoW]UnO] I got a chat at noon already Sunday.
[[GoW]UnO] noon to 2
[[GoW]UnO] SPDG
[notyoueither] ok
[[GoW]UnO] I HAVE TOO MANY JOBS!!!
[MasterZen] tell me about it
[notyoueither] besy guy
[notyoueither] ummm
[[GoW]UnO] I won't make the 3 team.
[MasterZen] I only gave you the RP job because there won't be much to
talk to them in a few days... MUAHAHAHAAHAHA
[[GoW]UnO] anyway then.
[[GoW]Panzer32] is this a GoW-GS chat? (is ND involved?)
[notyoueither] early aft in na is late evng in europe
[[GoW]UnO] yes.
[[GoW]UnO] they like noon,right?
[notyoueither] noon our time?
[[GoW]UnO] yes.
[[GoW]UnO] you guys could do it Sunday, Ill lurk while doing the
turnchat...
[[GoW]Panzer32] noon is probably fine for me
[notyoueither] noon edt?
[[GoW]UnO] MDT
[notyoueither] oh, good
[[GoW]UnO] Is what they typically ask for
[[GoW]Panzer32] I guess I'm the military strategy guy with Aggie gone
for a bit
[[GoW]UnO] technically Im supposed to be.
[[GoW]Panzer32] sorry, yes, 2:00 PM EDT
[[GoW]UnO] Vice CALF...
[MasterZen] I'll chip in, I joined this team for the warmongering
[[GoW]UnO] Yes, let's just chat it out.
[notyoueither] i think we may ask for 4pm edt. not sure yet. have to
quickly discuss
[nbarclay] Does CALF stand for something, or is it just a play on CoW?
[[GoW]UnO] er unless the CoW wants to get off his ASS!!!!
[[GoW]Panzer32] I'm the one who knows where all the units are... MZ
always is asking "where are the units, how far are they from __?
* [GoW]UnO kicks Ghengis
[MasterZen] :P
[[GoW]UnO] Consuls assistant to leading the fighting
[[GoW]Panzer32] Consul's Assistant to Leading the Fighting
[MasterZen] hahaha
[[GoW]Panzer32] x post
[nbarclay] Cleaver.
[[GoW]UnO] basically just a play, yes.
[[GoW]UnO] Moo
[[GoW]Panzer32] CrazyGhengis can be thanked for that one IIRC
[MasterZen] yeah, we have a fetish for barn animals
[[GoW]UnO] FYI.
[notyoueither] we are fond of chickens... foir some reason

[UnOrthOdOx]

Cliff notes:

We have NAP for 30 turns. Secret. NO ONE MUST KNOW, not even ND.

GS is considering assisting against RP. (need team to discuss)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings, UnO

Could you do me a favour? Send me a copy of the NAP in your own words, ratified by GoW? I will then return it to you as ratified by GS. In the mean time, it is in force of course. This is simply taking care of loose ends.

We look forward to the chat tomorrow with GoW and ND. I am afraid I can't say for sure yet who will be there for GS. I will try, but can not guarantee I will be there on time.

Thanks

nye

(Don't mind the header, Its just a phrase in hebrew- "and other vegetables"- meaning other stuff ).

Dear UnOrthOdOx,

I'm sorry I wasn't able to be there at the last chat- that seemed like quite an important one. I'm glad we decided on a NAP, especially with how things are going to shape up soon...

I'm quite optimistic regarding the future- and can see many opportunities for cooperation between our teams, I hope the same goes for you. The G-2 alliance has a nice ring to it, don't
you think?
That's just and idea now, but this might change.

As for the next chat- I really hope I can make it- a GoW-ND-GS summit certainly sounds exciting, also when bearing in mind the upcoming events.

War is a serious business, though, but I'm sure you are well prepared.


Respectfully,
Zeit.

GS is now apparantly considering us close enough to offer a full alliance?!

"just an idea for now"

[Hot_Enamel]

Can we up the offer to GS.

Help us with the elimination of RP
After their destruction, they leave Bob to ND & GoW.

GS then has GoW full co-operation in any invasion plans they can come up with against Lego.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Sent to NYE after an informal chat where he asked for proof of RP violating MPPs

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79695

Originally posted by Arnelos
3. It convinced RP Team, Lux Invicta's "ally", that Lux Invicta could not be trusted even with a simple defensive alliance agreement. The ink was hardly dry on the document before Lux Invicta seemed to be attempting to incite Neu Demogyptica into attacking them and thus activating the alliance. While that might be precisely what Trip intended, it didn't quite work out as he invisioned it if so. RP Team simply didn't have the force available to help Lux Invicta even if ND -DID- attack them and alliances are largely meaningless unless you keep your ally abreast of the fact that war is the gameplan and give your ally the time to bulid up enough force to help you. As it stood, it was abundantly apparent that even if RP "honored" the alliance agreement, it would STILL only be an agreement in name only should a war actually break out so early - as RP Team was too far away with too little force close to the scene to help in the short time span between the initial attack and the conquest of Lux's capital itself. If Lux Invicta was at all counting on RP Team to help them out that early in the game against a swordsman rush, they were sorely mistaken that it would happen w/o coordination between allies.

Basically, RP had an MPP with Lux, failed to so much as commit a single unit in honor of it. Should Lux have prepared with RP more for a mutual understanding of what was needed militarily? Sure. It does not change the facts, though.

Talks with ND have told us that what they DID do, instead, was attempt to use diplomacy and bluffing, even claiming GoW would back RP as a part of this to DELAY the ND attack until after the contract was finished. We did not take kindly that our name was used for such a stunt there either without our permission.

I can't find the thread ATM where Togas expresses his skill and prowess at delaying GoW with bluffs and bullying to hide that RP had a huge landmass to the south.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Sent to Arrian in response to his question in the thread:

Please check with NYE on that.

There is proof of the MPP with Lux in the ISDG, I sent NYE a link a few days ago where Arnelos talks frankly of it. RP was not in a position to help, sure, but still violated the MPP by turning the other way, even tried to get ND to wait until the MPP was over, using GoW's name without permission to back that position. CalcII (aka Zero) confirmed this when he joined our team.

I am not sure whether or not I can produce the proof for the MPP of Vox. Suffice it to say, those galleys floating around your island are loaded. Im not sure with what, but they were supposed to land. There is a chat log of this, but I am not sure if I can produce it for you due to the agreements of secrecy for such a thing. I will check and get back to you.

Please share this with your team, thanks.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Received from zeit, Chat on with ND today 1800 GMT

Honorable UnOrthOdOx,

1800 today works for me. I believe others will be able to come as well.

I'll let you know more soon,
Zeit.

[UnOrthOdOx]

From Arrian:

Will do, UnO. Interesting stuff.

So, that "exploration" galley is loaded, eh? I'm glad we kept tabs on it, then.

What's the deal with this alleged GoW-RP MPP? Don't get me wrong, I've no love of RP, and was getting pretty hopeful about possibly future cooperation between GoW & GS, but if what they're saying is true, I will have trouble trusting you guys. No offense, but it is what it is.

-Arrian (Rob)

My Response:

Hey Arrian,

I posted a response, but it got buried in a hurry. Please relay this to the team as well.

I can understand hesitation, sure. I'll be frank. Was there an MPP? Yes. Did it expire? Im looking right now, this is difficult, more on that in a minute.

Our team does not consider MPP's an NAP. I have told NYE that, but more importantly ROLEPLAY knew that. They had no right to be expecting it as an NAP. I can prove that RP believed them TWO SEPERATE deals as well, but am hesitant to do so, given the proof is negotiations between RP and myself. If, however, it will ease GS relations, I will poll on it.

I will tell you this. In my negotiations with RP, they drafted a contract that specifically stated it was to be seen as BOTH an MPP and a NAP. Tell me, if MPP included an NAP to them, would they have specified both in the contract I was negotiating?

RP knew they were seperate negotiations, they are only now complaining to suit their own needs. As far as GS and negotiations in the future, make sure you get an NAP with us if you want to be safe from attack. It is as simple as that, and the reason we were hell bent on sigining one with you guys in the first place.

Now. The MPP in question is a dubious piece of writing at its best. There was no mention of a starting date or turn, nor was there mention of an ENDING date or turn, just a general 'this is for 30 turns'. We have learned from this and will change documenting procedures in the future.

What I do know is RP has continually changed how many turns are left on it in their private discussions with us. Again, I can prduce evidence but hesitate to do so. We acted under the belief that it had expired. Plain and simple. RP's last statement even claims it expires after the present turn. Given the ambiguity of the contract, I feel RP is again attempting to stretch it so that we appear to have violated. However, also given the ambiguity, I cannot prove such, hence we are not publicly crying out in such a manner. Lets just say RP and ourselves disagree on when it ended. It is easier to use what we CAN prove, publicly: It was not an NAP, and RP knew it.

Anything else, please feel free to ask.

- UnOrthOdOx (Cole)

[Master Zen]

I don;t think it's a good idea to use the MPP ended argument, it will be seen as an excuse by us.

The only excuse we're giving is that a MPP is not a NAP. Simple as that. From the looks of the thread, I have a feeling it's worth it. Plus, once they see the double-dealing that RP is doing with both ND and us, I'm sure their impression of RP will go down the drains.

[Hot_Enamel]

I agree with MZ.

In this situation, our MPP is was not a NAP.
Let them argue in their theoretical examples.
But according to us... RP knew we dod not have a NAP with them.

Q. Do we have any communication from them that actually proves this point ?

Regs

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yes I do, further up in this thread TOGAS HIMSELF wrote a contract stating it was to be seen as BOTH an NAP and an MPP! THey are seperate, he knows, he can **** off.

I am not going to swell on the ended thing, just threw it out there and said we weren't going to persue it. Never hurts...

[Hot_Enamel]

This is the GS thread ... are you sure it's in here Uno ?

Sorry for being a pain ... I just dont recall reading it, and cant find it now.

[Panzer32]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83362

The pact was agreed upon on the 30th of April at 2:09 AM EST... which, according to the save game thread was... 590bc. Now, 590bc is turn 99. Add 30 turns on to 99, and we have 129. Turn 129 is 10 AD. Therefore the MPP has not expired.