DIPLO : Vox comments

[Krill]

"They do not have Demo now"

What government do you think they are in? They have Demo.
If we could trade it, it would be useful, but ND have it (as far as I can tell, they are in Anarchy.) But you are right, it is of "limited value to us"

EDIT: Cross post. I hate it when that happens

[Arrian]

Ahhh, I totally missed that! Sorry. When did RP get Demo?

Therefore, since we have no reason to switch for a while yet, we can wait for the NDA to run out.

So, basically what Krill said.

Therefore, I suggest that we ask Vox to provide nationalism and 250 gold for electricity.

When is the earliest we want to give them Electricity? We get it on T192. We don't want to help Lego's research any more than necessary, so I'd say we would want to hold it until at least T194. Make sense?

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

actually I might take it as is, in the spirit of furthering peace. Let vox "win" something unconditionally for a change, not attaching riders of our own to the deal. Who knows, a little good will goes a long way and we have definately shot ourselves in the feet more than once while trying to squeeze out an extra coin or hundred.

And I think if we get nationalism soon, say this turn or next, the sooner the 20 turns runs and we gift it to spain. If they are going to be effective at all in the upcoming age, they are going to have to mobilize and bulk up their forces.

[Krill]

I agree on that last paragraph; unless we garrison all of the tiles next to the coast with Infantry, they are going to be the weakest link, because Lego are going to get Marines, no question.

Maybe Vox could give us an advantage if/when we declare war on Lego. If they cut off their land at the choke point, we can attack Legos defenders on Voxs' land and wipe them out: Lego can't reinforce that land and we have a staging area.

If we are before Lego in the turn order, but after vox, they could move the units out of the way, and we could attack through the gap. the only problem is if lego declare war on vox, the same turn we land, they are dead. Since The should not (I hope) have combustion, they are limited to moving units by sea,, so there will not be many.

So I advocate giving them Replaceable parts 5~10 turns before we attack/ land, and they could build fortresses on the mountains (at the chokepoint. I think there are mountains there. I'm not sure). That would be a good defensable position for us when we bombard their city.

Is there anything wrong/implausable here, or does it have a fatal flaw?

[asleepathewheel]

the fatal flaw is vox. they are the pawns of lego, in case you didn't know. lego saved them from destruction at our hands for which they are eternally beholden. highly doubtful that they will ever cross their saviors. Possible but highly unlikely that gow could pursuade them to join us.

[Krill]

I noted that they had been saved, but what if we promised them something they couldn't resist. Somthing like 200% increase in the number cities that they could own. We could give them some of Lego cities. Or we could just threaten them, that we would wipe them out

And a simple question: Why hasn't Vox colinated all the land to the east of ND?

[Krill]

at our hands

This I just saw. City gifting may yet save Lego.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
Ahhh, I totally missed that! Sorry. When did RP get Demo?

I can't remember... they notified us, so we should be able to calculate it. Or we just ask Togas, which might be the easiest way

When is the earliest we want to give them Electricity? We get it on T192. We don't want to help Lego's research any more than necessary, so I'd say we would want to hold it until at least T194. Make sense?

No, not really. We'll havbe to wait until Lego gets electricity, even if we give it to Vox the turn before, they will be able to lower their research. Which is of course exactly what Vox hopes for: they will be helping Lego. We would have to wait 6, or 10 turns to deliver it if we want to avoid that.

Also note this: if Lego goes the other path, as they realize they can't be beaten to ToE (which they should know by now), waiting 20 turns for the NDA to run out would be near ideal. They can do steam, medicine, industrialisation, coorp, and sanitation(? is elec a prereq?) in the mean time, and get electricity for free from Vox.

DeepO

[DeepO]

I highly doubt it that Vox would cross Lego, but in this game, anything is possible. But other then trying to persuade them to join us, it would be easier probably to just wipe them out. With an ally, this can be done without much trouble.

The problem I see is that it doesn't really help us with Lego: They have a well protected chokepoint connecting Lego and Lego minor (where Vox lives). So we will still have to go by see for minimal losses...

Originally posted by Krill
And a simple question: Why hasn't Vox colinated all the land to the east of ND?

Because they would be wiped out instantly. That land was previously held by RP (Spain), and we couldn't help them survive on their land, with large force (what you currently see as our sea wall is only the part that survived, our army was bigger then that). Granted, that had more to do with strategical errors on our side then anything else, but Vox couldn't come close, so they never tried.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

ouch good points about the alt research path, there is enough for them to do for the next 20 turns that they dont' need elec immediately.

[notyoueither]

Took a while to find this thread. It's been a while since there was anything to discuss amongst ourselves re Vox as they were merely an apendage of Lego.

Now that things have changed, it is nice they they have broached the topic of continued peaceful relations with us. Saves us from what could be an awkward sounding of them.

I think we should take a positive, but noncommital position. We would certainly like to know the dispostion of any Lego forces they could tell us of.

[Aeson]

We will be sending the luxury right? Does it matter if it's Furs or Incense?

[notyoueither]

Try to match it up so we send the same lux to all of the civs as the first trade. Try to reserve one of them as a monopoly/reward for our 'real' friends.

[DeepO]

nye, that is already being done regarding which lux to send, but we've got little choice left. Both ND and GoW are receiving 2 of our lux... Vox is the only team which could use a reward

As to Vox: I think we should send something back to keep relations open. We might also start to think on a possible radio-for-free-tech-deal, with mayb be an option for computers.

I proposed the following a while back:
- we give radio to Vox
- they enter the modern age.
- whatever tech they receive, we get for free. In return we give them computers.

It's vertainly biased to them when you look at beaker costs, so we should add something to this deal. We could go for a gold compensation (e.g. 500 g), but I would prefer a promise from them: we still have problems securing a rubber source. Vox has 1 source themselves, we could ask for a guarantee that the moment we are under attack, and lose rubber from GoW (and either don't have, or lose the source on Legoland) we get 20 turns of rubber from them. That is certainly worth a tech to me.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I quite like that idea, DeepO. The only snag is our existing deals with ND and GoW for Fission and Rocketry, If Vox's tech should be one of them. Getting a free tech probably trumps that concern though.