MSS, you are up

[Arrian]

MSS - I posted my revised version of Aeson's line-item rebuttal.

Shiber,

I'm not sure the screenie is necessary after all.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I would like to point out again that some of us (at least me!) want to eliminate Vox completely from this game now.

They talk peace and then throw more mud at us at the same time... it's almost definite they will do whatever they can for the rest of the game to hurt us. That means Nationalism will be given to everyone but us, and if the game progresses that far, Fission (or is it Rocketry?). I wouldn't be suprised if those techs came with a 'never trade to GS' clause, I'd expect it actually. Thats a swing of 8-16 turns in the tech race, and given our long term disadvantages from a commerce standpoint (few river tiles compared to the others), it could very well end up costing us the game.

[Arrian]

Oh I agree, Aeson. Totally.

-Arrian

[ManicStarSeed]

Then I will add that after this baseless whining, peace might not be an option from GS's perspective...

Mss

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Aeson
I would like to point out again that some of us (at least me!) want to eliminate Vox completely from this game now.

Add me to this group. I have taken back my (anyway not very strong) support to the Voxodus and also want them dead now. This includes a naval blockade and to sink eventually escaping galleys.

[Arrian]

Hang on there for a bit, MSS, I want to see what the hell Lego is up to. Give it a little while, ok?

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I don't think it's something we necessarily need to make public... just that the 'official' responses saying we'd be fine with Lego taking Vox into their own lands don't seem official yet.

Lego (or anyone taking Vox) would almost surely be doing it for the free tech. If we say 'take them', and then end up killing Vox at expense to the other team, we put ourselves in a bad position. It's probably too late now, I just was voicing my displeasure at policy being written on the fly as it were.

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Arrian
Hang on there for a bit, MSS, I want to see what the hell Lego is up to. Give it a little while, ok?

-Arrian

with my long post or my para phrased bit at the end (baseless whining...)

Mss

[Arrian]

Aeson, that's a good point.

Why don't we add a post in the public forum thread re: at this point, GS is discussing if we even want peace at all. We have not come to a final decision, though.

-Arrian

[ManicStarSeed]

Final Draft

Nations of the world:
As the Minister of Diplomatic Affairs, I am deeply saddened that this is the route that Vox has chosen to take regarding our once private peace negotiation. GS will not be held hostage to Vox's apparent attempt to bully us (in the public forum) into a policy contrary to what we have already adopted. GS has been forthcoming in it's decision that we are no longer willing to share our continent with Vox.

Please allow me to clarify the situation.
First when Vox approached us for Peace, we stated very clearly that
1) We seek an unconditional surrender from Vox, that means peace on our terms. AND
2) Hostilties will continue until we reach a final agreement.
Beta said that Vox understood the message. So any Vox casualties should be no surprise.
When we asked whether Vox would leave the continent for peace, we received the peace proposal outlined in Betas first post.
Let it be known that Gathering Storm REJECTS the proposal, (no matter how “reasonable” it seems) in favor of our own conditions for peace - a Vox exodus from our continent.
A day or two ago, Jon Miller PMed us (before this slur campaign) and stated there were some errors made and that Vox has been planning an exodus. Gathering storm considered this a major break through. We sent a brief message to Vox outlining a portion of what we expect, then suddenly this thread appears and negotiations have now stalled.

Before ANY of you judge Gathering Storm in the way we conducted ourselves or what we ask in terms of peace we ask you…
Do the other nations want Vox to survive? Let us know…We really want to know.
Are YOU willing to have Vox as a neighbor and share a border with them?
Speak up, please…
Currently, Vox is the only nation to actually eliminate a team so far . Assuming we all want Vox to survive… Will you be willing to share your land mass with Vox?
We are not. BUT….here is what we were willing to do to insure the survival of Vox…
Gathering Storm was willing to give up to 12 turns of cease fire where we observe Vox disbanding their remaining military to pay for galleys and settlers to load up and leave. Vox may maintain a small military (during the exodus but not in cities) to protect their new settlements. We were willing to provide some techs and resources while they re-established free of charge (assuming it complies with other deals). Granted Vox never learned of these details because they chose to smear us in public before we got to negotiated a final deal.

Let me address some other grievous issues raised
Yes, we made an amphibious landing in Vox’s Core because WE ARE AT WAR folks. No treaty was “signed.” “Hostilities will continue until peace is finalized”
Beta stated that Vox moved (5) not-so immortals off a mountain in good faith. These troops were down to 1 or 2 hp each. Gathering Storm says that they should have disbanded them if it was done in good faith, not move them to threaten our workers. Also we were going to ask that these forces be disbanded as part of any agreement, so now we have one less demand.

For Vox trying to claim foul is plain desperation. Just because they started this war, what gives them the right to expect that they can dictate the terms in which it ends. We expected a proud honorable foe, not this. This latest development has hardened our hearts and strengthened our resolve. I am uncertain that Gathering Storm can accept peace on any terms now. We are discussing it as this thread drags on. I will say that the path to peace is so narrow that we are uncertain that Vox’s “mouth” could even fit through. We say this to Vox, (though it assumes more honor than you have show)…May your blades chip and shatter.

ManicStarSeed,
Minister of Diplomatic Affairs
Gathering Storm.

[Harovan]

Well put. No objection.

[Arrian]

It's good, MSS.

The only (minor) worry is that it could be overkill at this point - we've pretty much said it already. But eh, why not hammer out points home, right? Post it.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

I really like all of it, except for the final paragraph. We don't need the other teams to know that we are considering conquest instead of peace - that would really make us look cruel in the eyes of some sensitive individuals. Let us say that peace will be more difficult, but we are still willing to negotiate the same conditions that we had in mind before Beta launched his campaign of slander.

[ManicStarSeed]

too late... let it stand...take our chances

Let them know that the slander in the tread is hurting the process....

[Theseus]

I'm almost caught up...

I would like to post in the public forum the foundation of the StormHawk Party of GS. I'd like to do it in a sort of roleplaying, "rogue general" kind of way (but with disclaimers and a reminder that this is supposed to be fun).

I'm gonna go have a smoke and outline it.

You can guess what the first StormHawk objective is.

BTW, you guys have done a FANTASTIC job today... bouncing back and forth between this thread and the other, man, it's like watching a top pit-crew in action.