Radical Idea

[alva]

Indeed, combining forces would be very powerfull and could potentionally very lucrative, however IMO Vox has crossed a line.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


How would they explain this to their current allies without exposing our new alliance? How could we trust them not to turn against us if they got a better deal?

They could correctly say that they surrendered and gave up D'ville and land because we outmaneuvered them and they wanted to save their army from further destruction.

Why did we accept? We got them out of the mountains and gained all that land for signing a peace accord. We can use the time of the peace to research Chivalry (in 6 if we max it, but we probably also want to rush the aquaduct at Tempest and maybe another building or two) and to create a fortress that would give us protection against possible Vox activity in the future.

No one need know of any other provisions of any accord.

[DeepO]

Massive crossposts going on, it seems... or at least on my side

NYE, I can imagine you still see this as a possibility, however, is it really realistical? Sure, now that it becomes obvious they are going to lose, they want to switch coats, and be on the side of the victors. However, don't you think it will be just as easy to convince GoW from this? And who would do most damage on Bob, GoW, or Vox? It's not that their tactics have been super strong, so far.

OTOH, once it would become known that we and Vox ally together, instead of continuing this war to the bitter end, we immediately face isolation from all other teams, including Lego. That is not something we can handle, we tried this before at the start of this game.

Not to mention the possible back stabbing risk, which will only become bigger once they would be up to strength again. Sure, we may have a fortress and a couple of galleys, but that won't nearly be enough if they for instance gain access to knights too. And what about timing: are we really wanting to have to deal with intense , (intimite) communication for the rest of this game, which could play out for another half year to a year or so? No thanks, not my idea of a good time. I would rather not win, if that is the price.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
This guy is pretty funny. They continually underrate us. Oh, and how are they getting feudalism, eh? buying from GoW? pretty funny.

Yeah, I was actually gonna laugh at that point of the conversation if it just wasn't so damn sad.
There was another really funny bit which I didn't post, but I think I should mention because it may be important (and because it is funny ). That person said that if we give him a negative answer on this one, then he's going to make the same offer to another team.
Yeah, right... suppose Lego is one of them, they'll just go: "ooh, well, we're actually doing very fine here, but let's give some of our cities to a bunch of proven backstabbing bastards which lack the industrious trait and can't run their cities properly. Oh, and I suppose we'll also gift them our core cities for a few turns so they could complete libraries at half price with their scientific trait in those cities and then give them back. And their slowmoving immortals will be fighting the wars of the future alongside our cavalry. And then plumbers will rain down from the heavens and Queen Victoria the 1st, Empress of India, will say "What on Earth is that?". Right."

Edit: wow, the speed of cross-posts here... the horror!

[Shiber]

Originally posted by notyoueither
We gain considerably if a deal can be worked out. The question is how much assurance do we need of Voxes fidelity, and do they have it in their power to satisfy that need.

They can start by gifting us DissidentVille. Step two would be Vox settling a city near the colony (so it would assimilate the colony) where we tell them to and then gifting the city to us, for example.

[notyoueither]

Don't forget, we were essentially telling Vox they were on their own (end the tech agreement) and showed little or no inclination to ally with them for military conquest.

I was not shocked in the least that they attacked us. Would they have been if we had attacked them, as we were beginning to plan to do? (but worse, we started to show it)

[Shiber]

Okay, I'm glad we all agree.
Can I tell the Voxian guy that it's a definite no? Or do we want to make a counter-offer (I'll probably oppose and so will most of the people who posted here, I gather; of course, if it's the will of the team then I'll deliver the message) or stall for any reason?

[FrustratedPoet]

Maybe we should wait a minute before responding. It would be nice if a few others (e.g SR, Arrian, nathan) commented on this before we turned them down.

Or is it very urgent?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Shiber
Okay, I'm glad we all agree.
Can I tell the Voxian guy that it's a definite no? Or do we want to make a counter-offer (I'll probably oppose and so will most of the people who posted here, I gather; of course, if it's the will of the team then I'll deliver the message) or stall for any reason?

Well, at least stall until we see the turn. They might have lost their whole army or something, bad time to agree to anything.

[FrustratedPoet]

Are Vox still sitting on the turn?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Are Vox still sitting on the turn?

yes

[FrustratedPoet]

In that case I expect they want an answer from us before they play. That way they can either attack us or waste their time trying to set themselves up as vassals to somebody else if we turn them down.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by DeepO
My apologies to your friend, this is not personal, but indeed they made a mistake, and have to pay the price for it. Or at least, that's my opinion on the matter. I do appreciate it you want to serve as an informal communication channel, though.

I'd like to relate to this part and clear up a few things.
First, he's not my friend. I've never had much respect for this guy, and now I know for sure that I was right all along.
Second, he approached me. I found his message, his views, his assumptions & estimates and his attitude ridiculous at best, arrogant or blatantly stupid at worse. I only forwarded it because I felt that it was my responsibility, as a member of the team, to deliver any messages that I receive, even if they're ridiculous and probably just a waste of time.
Though you gotta admit, you must have had some good laughs while reading through those messages.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
In that case I expect they want an answer from us before they play. That way they can either attack us or waste their time trying to set themselves up as vassals to somebody else if we turn them down.

If they're waiting on an answer from us, then I say we should just ride out the clock and force them to move. we can't be held hostage due to the save's being held hostage, or somtheing to that effect.

[notyoueither]

Actually, according to my chat with Beta, we are waiting to hear from him. I suspect they are holding the turn while discussing whether to sue for peace or not.

I think it is premature to reply to the unknown one, when we don't even know if the concept has any currency with Vox as a whole.

btw, what are we going to do if Vox sues for peace publically? How big a bullies do we want to become in the eyes of the other teams?