Radical Idea

[Shiber]

Should I have enough support for this content, and noone would object to any of the wording, I am going to send this message:

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You showed renewed interest in peace, so I'm letting you know what sort of thing* GS would agree to:
- GS gets everything up to and including Eliopolis.
- GS will abandon Eliopolis and relocate it south of the 1-tile chokepoint.
- GS will trade iron to Vox free of charge.
Please understand, that we do not see peace as a viable option unless these terms are met. They are not negotiable - however, we are open to negotiations on other issues.
Please discuss this within your team, add whatever you want to add upon the concept described above and send back a formal message detailing your idea of a possible peace treaty between GS and Vox.

* I'm using informal language on purpose.

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Btw, how about asking that after the treaty is signed, the in-game state of war will remain for 10 turns (so we could still enjoy war unweariness) or until Vox is attacked and needs iron to perform troop upgrades (I know this leaves a window for a doublecross, where they will pretend to be attacked by GoW and ND but would really be assisting them - but by then, Vox won't be any threat to us at all).

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Shiber
You showed renewed interest in peace, so I'm letting you know what sort of thing* GS would agree to:
- GS gets all tiles up to and including Eliopolis.
- Vox will abandon Eliopolis and relocate it south of the 1-tile chokepoint. Alternatively, Vox give Eliopolis to GS
- GS will always be willing to trade iron, under conditions that need to be negotiated.
Please understand, that we do not see peace as a viable option unless these terms are met. They are not negotiable - however, we are open to negotiations on other issues.
Please discuss this within your team, add whatever you want to add upon the concept described above and send back a formal message detailing your idea of a possible peace treaty between GS and Vox.

Trading iron is a gift to them, not something we demand... if they don't want it, it is negotiable... So, maybe that part should be shifted elsewhere in your message, to keep it separated.

Further, I would include a friendly warning that we hold the right to fire on all Voxian units within our cultural borders for as long as peace hasn't been formally declared. Just some insurance against their backstabbing customs

DeepO

[zeit]

Looks good to me- although i'd rather see some of Vox's army destroyed first...

It's a yes from me.

[Shiber]

Revision 1.1:

You showed renewed interest in peace, so I'm letting you know what sort of thing GS would agree to:

- GS gets everything up to and including Eliopolis. Eliopolis will be abandoned with a settler by GS and relocated in order not to block the 1-tile isthmus.
- After the treaty is signed, Vox and GS will remain in a state of war in-game for 10 turns. The reasoning behind this is that GS is currently enjoying a happiness bonus due to negative war weariness and would like to extend it.
- GS will reserve the right to attack any Voxian troops located within GS cultural borders by any means it sees fit during and after negotiations, excluding specific cases that Vox would discuss with GS. Should our relations reach normalcy, the same rule would apply to Vox.

Please understand that we do not see peace as a viable option unless these terms are met. They are not negotiable - however, we are open for negotiations on other issues.
Additionally, on the matter of iron: we realize that taking all the land up to and including Eliopolis would leave Vox without iron. Therefore, we are willing to trade iron to Vox completely free of charge for as long as we are in peace, meaning starting from 10 turns after this treaty is signed. In case of emergency, e.g. Vox is invaded by Bob and needs iron for essential upgrades, GS will make an exception and begin iron trade immediately; however, once the issue is resolved, Vox will have to declare war on GS again, only in-game of course, to complete the 10 turns requirement.
Finally, we ask that you do not delay the progress of the game intentionally because of these negotiations. Should you do so, we will cease contact at once. How about this new bit?

Please discuss this within your team, add whatever you want to add upon the concept described above and send back a formal message detailing your idea of a possible peace treaty between GS and Vox.

[Arrian]

Bah! ON TO THE VOICE! DEATH TO VOX!

-Arrian, Warmongerous Maximus

[Shiber]

I for one want to get a lot of land and cities without having to fight and lose units and be able to use our remaining GA for some infrastructure and possibly the colossus / a leo prebuild...
Although it would be FUN to crush Vox under our boots

Well, everything in its due time...

[Arrian]

Yeah, now that we got a leader out of the war, I wouldn't mind getting a chunk of territory without casualties.

On the other hand, not only will crushing them be fun, but removing them will remove a headache.

Finally, I SERIOUSLY doubt they will cough up those terms. No way. I think they would rather go down fighting than agree to that.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

IMHO it's worth a try. Asking is free.

[notyoueither]

Unfortunately not always, Shiber.

I don't think the time is quite right to put our cards on the table. After the seven wanderers are dead, and our defenses are more up to snuff would be much better.

Besides, now it appears as if they are playing games. They probe me, then you, then me, then you again.

I was of the impression that we were waiting for them to get back to us with an offer. They have not officially asked for peace yet, but they expect us to tell them our war aims? I think not.

[nbarclay]

According to a PM from BetaHound, it looks like I accidentally left a peace offer on the table after using the diplomacy screen to do some spying. He asked whether the offer was real or part of the workaround for the crash, and I explained what I think happened. Anyhow, I wouldn't read special renewed Voxian interest in peace into the current exchange.

And we are definitely NOT to the point of being able to present even a tentative peace offer. In my poll, the largest single voting bloc (although not a majority) preferred peace only if Vox survived being driven from the continent.

[Theseus]

My preferences, in order:

1. Destroy them... let them drown in rivers of blood.

2. Drive them from the continent.

3. Ask them to wear GS' shoes, and make a proposal. STRONGLY make clear that being in peace discussions is in NO WAY necessarily a prelude to peace.

We should not make any kind of proposal to Vox at this juncture. Wouldn't be prudent.

[notyoueither]

We should send them something. A suggestion that we await their official request for peace and what they offer for it might be the place to start.

[Shiber]

How about a poll?
3 days, title is: Vox has shown interest in peace via numerous channels.
- Send Vox an official frame for what we think is a possible treaty.
- Send Vox an inofficial list of GS demands / thoughts on peace.
- Ask Vox via an informal channel to make an official offer first?
- In the words of the alien from Independence Day: no ... peace.
- Give them a banana (abstain).

Any options I'm missing?
(or we could just add an 'Other: Please specify' option if we want to get this poll started quickly)

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Shiber
- GS gets everything up to and including Eliopolis. Eliopolis will be abandoned with a settler by GS and relocated in order not to block the 1-tile isthmus.

We don't need to abandon it with a settler, just right-clicking and select Abandon City will do the trick.

[Shiber]

But we'd rather abandon it with a settler, won't we? Otherwise, we'll be throwing away population points for nothing.
If we're going to abandon it with a settler and relocate it instead of just abandoning and building a settler elsewhere, we have to tell Vox, or else they'd get suspicious when they see that we haven't abandoned it already and think that we're trying to violate the agreement.