America isn't old enough to be in Civ3

[TCO]

Sun,

Oh, I know we're not perfect. It's just that we get so much anti-American "balence" (look at this thread for instance) that I have to remind people how TRULY special this place is. Remeber that a big factor in the liberal, urbane Europe that exists know is what the US did to free it from fascism and to protect it from communism.

FYI: I've worked in Europe and have a European born mother and relatives. So I've seen both sides...Sure ther are Americans who don't know much about Europe and have a one-sided view of how great the US. But I actually find that level of ignorance less galling than the pseudo-intellecutal "sophistication" of some coddled Western Euros...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Fresno
GP
It is also the land of Irangate, Vietnam and the KKK.

I don't want to offend any Americans by saying this, since I know they did some good things as well. But it isn't just a country of 'good guys'.

That you would equate those three things, shows what a swaddled little baby you are...

We fought the good fight in Viet Nam. (My uncle led the raid on Haiphong Harbor.) The communist North were brutal thugs who shredded that country after then 75 takeover. Do you care about the literally millions of VietNamese who tried to escape there in tiny boats? Do you know about how many braved rape and piracy and death from thirst and exposure to escape those brutal thugs? Nah...not important...only revisionist history against the US catches your eye...

Irangate was an improperly handled secret mission. There is no big huge evil shame there. The guys involved should lose their jobs, but the purposes were noble (freeing American citizens in Lebanon).

The KKK is basically non-existent nowadays. But OF COURSE it was and is an evil bunch of idiots.

Did I say America was a country only of good? No! You concentrate on our minor flaws, while ignoring our great acheivements. That's childish. Which is more significant?

I've worked and travelled (both as a civilian and in the military) in Asia, US, Europe (including Amstedam). I suggest you "get some time on the pond" yourself. Your level of thinking will go up and you'll be able to contribute a little more thought to the discussion...

[Fresno]

GP:

Did I say America was a country only of good? No! You concentrate on our minor flaws, while ignoring our great acheivements. That's childish. Which is more significant?

You DID say America was

the land of the free and the brave. The bastion of freedom. The good guys who stood up to the Soviets

This is a very one-sided view, and therefore I tried to nuance it. I also said I don't deny the good things America brought. But apparently, you're not capable of understanding a nuanced view; you only want to read criticism.

[Fresno]

I accidentally posted this.

Moderators, please delete this post.

[sachmo71]

Hey, wasn't the question originally about whether America was OLD ENOUGH to be in Civ 3? If it still is about that, who cares about age? It's about the historical impact the civilization had on the world AND who will buy the most copies of the game. They are staying.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Fresno
GP:
You DID say America was This is a very one-sided view, and therefore I tried to nuance it. I also said I don't deny the good things America brought. But apparently, you're not capable of understanding a nuanced view; you only want to read criticism.

That I posted the good things about America is not the same as saying that I think we do only good. This world and your non-German occupied country is better off overall for the US.

Let me make it clearer!

-the good outweighs the bad.
-I'm responding to this thread and earlier posts which is an anti-American (jealous) thread.

And finally. WE ARE THE DESIGNERS OF CIV. That alone shifts the balance to pro-USA!!

[Sun Zi 36]

"Hey, wasn't the question originally about whether America was OLD ENOUGH to be in Civ 3? If it still is about that, who cares about age? It's about the historical impact the civilization had on the world AND who will buy the most copies of the game. They are staying."

Dont worry man, America is staying no matter wat we say. We are just arguing whether it SHOULD. Yea everyone agree age has little to do with it. Thats why we have deviated from that issue.

[KrazyHorse]

Well this has progressed from silly to stupid now. Cries of "Nazi" and "Communist" have begun to fly. GP, what's with the mess of posts you just went through? I get the feeling you're trying to stir things up worse than they already are.

[KrazyHorse]

I think I missed the point of #6

"Blame it on the butterfly ballet"?

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Well this has progressed from silly to stupid now. Cries of "Nazi" and "Communist" have begun to fly. GP, what's with the mess of posts you just went through? I get the feeling you're trying to stir things up worse than they already are.

Ok, I was being a ****. I'll bring my level of discussion up.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I think I missed the point of #6

"Blame it on the butterfly ballet"?

it was a reference to the confusing Palm Beach ballot. maybe the spelling kinda killed the joke...

[Dauphin]

I'm responding to this thread and earlier posts which is an anti-American (jealous) thread.

Of all American's arrogant traits I think this is the one that annoys me.- the belief that everyone want to be like America.

[TCO]

BC,

It's more to the effect of others spending a lot of time worrying what we're up to, wanting to change us, and maybe just a tad bit of jealousy of the size/power/cultural prevelance. But if that doesn't apply to you...COOL! Word up. Good for you. Live and let live.

[KrazyHorse]

Yes! Now everybody hug.

Can you feel the ?

[Dauphin]

just a tad bit of jealousy

Many times I have heard Americans say how everybody wants to be Americans, or everyone is jealous of America for one reason or another, but a clarification should be made, as its not true.

For example I don't *want* my country to have your lifestyle, economic muscle, military might, but I won't say no to it obviously. I am more concerned with greater standard of living, disposable income, social justices etc...

When it comes to cultural prevalence, it doesn't bother me. Just because McDonalds or Coca-Cola is American doesn't mean that we have been Americanised by them (we aren't about to pick up your notorius gun culture for example), neither has America been Anglicised by watching Teletubbies or the Spice girls. Basically I feel that culture only spreads if it is amenable to the citizens of the country to which it is being exported. Loads of culture nuances have been picked up due to there useful, interesting or entertaining value. Its almost a pick'n'mix - take the "good" culture and ignore the "bad".