Apolyton University

[jshelr]

I can think of one guy who has to play

[Dominae]

nbarclay, I probably wouldn't play the "Huge Map Ultimate Power" game if it were adopted by AU. First, simply because Huge maps get pretty boring in the middle of the game, when things get too tedious and long. You said yourself that you stopped playing your Ulitmate Power game eventually yourself for the same reasons, so what would the victory condition be? Second, Ultimate Power as a goal in and of itself seems strange to me; if you don't end up being the best in the Middle ages, you've lost, right? Maybe if 'Ulitmate Power' were defined a little more precisely (access to all luxuries, 75% of all Medieval Wonders, or a combination of such conditions...)?


Dominae

[Arrian]

Hmm, discussing Ultimate Power are we? Excellent, Smithers.[/Simpsons]

Well... my problem is that I just can't play Huge maps. My computer slows to a crawl, and I just don't have the patience (even if the time between turns is reasonable, my own turns are gonna take FOREVER).

This is why I play standard maps usually, and only occasionally play large worlds.

Dominae - yeah, if you're not already rocketing into the lead by the mid-medieval age, you just don't have UP. Up, to me, is defined as follows:

1) #1 in the important categories on F11.
2) Most of the wonders. Having them ALL is great, but there are several that just aren't important (oracle, g.lighthouse). Even missing a good one is ok, especially if you have good odds of taking it later.
3) Luxuries... access to lots as quickly as possible.
4) Tech - as large a lead as possible - a full era being the goal.

But that's just my definition Anyway, I prefer standard maps, but I could deal with large. It's my opinion (based on an educated guess, really) that normal maps are more conducive to UP anyway, due to resource and luxury distribution. Luxuries in particular. There are 8 types in the game. On a standard map, that's one per civ (and if you overcrowd, killing a civ and stealing their luxury is only a matter of taking a couple of cities). On large maps, its still 8 luxuries, but now 12 civs. On a huge its 8/16. You could start on a continent with 4 neighbors, whack them all, and end up with 3 luxuries... or even less! On a normal map, you would have a minimum of 4, and probably 5.

-Arrian

[punkbass2000]

'Get UP, Stand UP'

[nbarclay]

Well, SOMETHING is going really wierd with the save game I made. I'm into the New This and New That on my cities, and the most cities any AI on my continent has is three. (Someone just recently discovered Map Making.) And that's supposedly on Emperor! I wanted Ultimate Power, but this is ridiculous!

Nathan

[Arrian]

One time, using the "quickstart" feature, I mistakenly started a chieftain game. I had been restarting to find a decent spot, and at one point, I went down 1 button too far and hit "tutorial." I backed out, but failed to realize that the difficulty level was now set to chieftain, and the restart feature just stayed with it. So there I am, playing what I meant to be a Monarch game, and I'm just KICKING ASS. Not a shot fired, and I'm gobbling up all the land, wonders, etc. Unbelievable!

Then I hit F8. I looked at the scoring, and it dawned on me. Man, did I feel smart.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

First off, I need a little more time to finish AU 107, but yeah, after the loooong come-back, I'd love to play a UP game (and not 'always war' for the moment).

I'd vote for standard or large, with a non-winning endpoint... early in the Industrial Age, maybe. TOE?

[ducki]

Oh, NOW I know what all those "AU 10X Spoiler" Threads are about...I was wondering where to get those and what the heck AU was... know I know.


This looks like great stuff, and once I am "up to snuff" I'd love to participate.

What a great idea!

[nbarclay]

I tried reloading the game more than once to make sure the program really thought it was suppsoed to be Emperor, and that's what it keeps claiming. It looks like something was lost in the translation trying to get a map from a 150 BC 1.16f save.

Nathan

[Dominae]

I'm up for a UP AU game, as long as the UP victory condition is clearly defined. Or maybe you would need to somehow "prove" on the spoiler that you've achieved UP?

Oh, and it would have to be Standard or Large map size for me too.


Dominae

[nbarclay]

I think I came up with a basic idea for an Ultimate Power map set-up (probably starting with a random map and doing some tweaking), but the question is, what civs? The thought occurs to me that if I can get a list of civs people want to play, I could assign the ones that don't make the list to the AIs and let the player choose. (Something tells me Japan and China belong on top of the list of player civs.)

Does standard map, 60% water, pangea sound good? Or would continents be better? And since we're after Ultimate Power, how about sedentary barbarians so we can expand without much fear?

As for where the game ends, part of me thinks it should last until entry into the modern era since it's hard to claim Ultimate Power if a civ can't do four-turn research throughout that era. Of course another part dreads the extra couple centuries of micromanagement.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae
I'm up for a UP AU game, as long as the UP victory condition is clearly defined. Or maybe you would need to somehow "prove" on the spoiler that you've achieved UP?

One twist would be to have a "What Ultimate Power Means to Me" thread and then judge our games against our own goals. (Maybe have one post before the game starts and an optional update early in the game revising the goals in light of what the starting position looks like it should make possible.)

That's not to say that you fail if you miss your goals. Indeed, something would be questionable about a concept of Ultimate Power that is guaranteed to be reachable even with an exceptionally good starting position. Rather, success would be measured by setting high goals and coming as close to reaching them as the starting position permits.

Nathan

[Dominae]

nbarclay, I'm with you on this one...now I just have to think what "Ultimate Power" means to me. Maybe I'll just play the game and see at what point I do reach ultimate power, then post my results at that time. If I can't do it before the Modern age, I'll have failed...


Dominae

[DaveMcW]

What is the difference between ultimate power and an ultra-early conquest victory?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
What is the difference between ultimate power and an ultra-early conquest victory?

When a nation conquers the world, the only power it demonstrates is a power to destroy. Ultimate Power involves not just the power to destroy, but the power to create as well. A nation with Ultimate Power must be capable of winning any war it chooses (or is compelled) to fight quickly and decisively, but that power need not be exercised beyond securing whatever lands the civilization actually has a use for. A nation with Ultimate Power must also be able to create many great wonders, to lead the world decisively in science, and to build a culture that is the envy of the world. Anything less than that is not true Ultimate Power because the nation does not have the power to succeed militarily without compromising the rest of its potential for greatness.

Nathan