record attempt(yes I am nuts:D )

[shade]

ok here are 2 saves where you can play with

Originally posted by rah
The first part I could see maybe. But since the drop off is to a max 201, the impact is coming from something else, Something that doesn't vary. And the residual that you mention would vary as you went up in techs.
RAH

Ok I have attached a zip containing 2 saves(1982 and 1983,the 1982 sav is somewhere at the beginning of the turn)
I think I have 2 1/2 options
option 1: the sum of the trade-arrows, sciencebeakers and gold must stay under 2^16(=65536)
in 1982 this sum is 65347 and in 1983 it's 66K
option 2just forgot to check it and civ isn't on this computer) sciencebeakercost goes over 2^14(16384)...I'm pretty sure it's over this in 1983 just don't know by hard how much it was in 1982.But on the other hand: 14bit???, 15 and 16bit are used(colors)
option 1/2: the sciencebeakers must be <2^15(32768)
(but I had this overflow before)

this in combo with the fact that this is only checked once every X turns(Odoe years?...but 1983 isn't one,neither is 1982 I thought)...changing (cheating a big city into the game) during the turn doesn't change it.

I don't think it's an overflow of the caravanrevenue, because all the big ones are reduced to a value
200->210(I've seen 201,204,207...wich are in these cases the sum of the the cities trade-arrows)

Neither the sum of science,trade and lux give any "special" value(both times something in 22K)

here's the zip...have fun
Shade

[rah]

Re: ok here are 2 saves where you can play with

Originally posted by shade
I don't think it's an overflow of the caravanrevenue, because all the big ones are reduced to a value
200->210(I've seen 201,204,207...wich are in these cases the sum of the the cities trade-arrows)
Shade

Good catch that it's the sum. No one noticed that the last time we had this discussion. So now we better know the what, now we need to nail down the why. :b

RAH

[Straybow]

Trade routes

I found the thread: Interesting observations on the effects of roads on trade

Just above the bottom Quantus Satis has two posts. The second has the map of unobstructed recognized routes. The post before the map notes the values that trade routes can have in certain circumstances. Of note, domestic cities with Superhighways and rail connection can't have certain values.

Rail: 0,1,2,3,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,13,15,16,17,18,20...43
(4, 9, 14, 19...39 are missing)

Looking at your home territory, obviously Philadelphia's route with Chicago (+14) does not have rail bonus.

Since your cities all have Airports you can't tell whether they have valid road connections, since the Airport supersedes road connection (but not rail).

Nonetheless, when I look at your continent I can tell you that cities on opposite sides of the gap in the middle (see below) probably did not have road bonuses before Airport. Some other time I'll do some cheating and check.

I'm sure most of those trade routes were in effect before 1AD so for a hundred or more turns before you got Airports you lost out on quite a bit of trade.

[Straybow]

Gaps can kill bonuses

Every continent seems to have these large gaps where road and rail connections are lost, but obviously your homeland is where one would expect to see the most careful attention.

See the gap in roads on the coast west of Atlanta? That kind of gap also has potential to kill the road bonus, had there been a route between Atlanta and St Louis.

In the Mad 2.42 Succession game I calculated 150-200 trade lost per turn just among the 20ish cities in Scouser homelands averaging 2 routes to the SSC. I think that was probably an underestimate.

So for your case, having well developed cities on both ends increases the effect, and then having double and double again etc the number of cities as your empire grew before rails (when values drop by 33%)… Ouch!

[shade]

thx Straybow(for the link and info)

I always thought trade-road/RR connection was only that you had to have a connection between the 2 cities and when both city-radii were roaded/RR then it was ok...not

about those trade-routes...don't remember when I started using them seriously(mostly use caravans for wonders)...this is something I will study closely after my exams(usefull for my own game to...time, I need time...)

Let's now try to figure out the trade-kill bonus ...

Shade
(PS to all those who never tried something like a record-attempt...try it out, it needs quite some more concentration than a usual game...)

[Straybow]

I don't think it's an overflow of the caravanrevenue, because all the big ones are reduced to a value 200->210(I've seen 201,204,207...wich are in these cases the sum of the the cities trade-arrows)

Interesting, the cities' WGA are in the 50-70 range and normally only WGA are counted for calculating continuing trade route values. So after the "break" trade routes are counted with WGA in place of delivery/damand bonus? Why even write a totally separate routine for a case that can hardly ever be expected to occur?

[TCO]

Shade, why are you railroading squares that don't need a RR, when you don't ahve all your cities down? That makes no sense.

[shade]

Originally posted by GP
Shade, why are you railroading squares that don't need a RR, when you don't ahve all your cities down? That makes no sense.

This means you probably looked at the last save and saw there were only 227 cities:
I have 1 question for you:
HOW GOOD DO YOU THINK CAN CITIES GROW WHEN THEIR ENTIRE CITYRADIUS IS ONLY PLAINS/FORREST/HILL OR MOUNTAINS...STOP NAGGING OVER THOSE FEW CITIES??

about the railroads 2 things
* GO-TO
* enormous distances that caravans have to travel

Shade

[TCO]

They grow fine up to a certain siz (off of planes). You can be irrigating/transforming as the city grows too.

You RR squares that don't need it. BAD BOY!

[Julius Brenzaida]

GP, are you the holder of the record of the higher score

[shade]

Originally posted by GP
They grow fine up to a certain siz (off of planes). You can be irrigating/transforming as the city grows too.

without oceansquares(those can give some boost when building a harbor immediatly)
size 2 ...3 max...then you need improvements
(I use engineers to start them of at size 8 in 2 or 3 turns)

You RR squares that don't need it. BAD BOY!

...such as? those within the cityradius give me gold(SH) and make movement easier(if there is 1 square roaded guess wich square the AI will want to use in a GO-TO-command???)

Shade

[DrFell]

Railroads don't increase trade at all.

[Straybow]

GoTo is bad about not using roads and rivers, but tends to use RR. Food "rings" should only be short distances, and no other caravans need to be delivered in one turn. Even then you'd have to have many diversions to road-only tiles to use up a Freight's 2 mp.

[TCO]

just take two engineers and have one found a city and the other irrigate it.

You are trying to clean up the sites before starting the cities. that is silly.

[shade]

Originally posted by GP
You are trying to clean up the sites before starting the cities. that is silly.

-->Where did you get that from???

just take two engineers and have one found a city and the other irrigate it.

looks like you didn't read what I wrote:
Irrigating takes 3 turns...
3turns=Size 8 in my case...
after that demo: +1/turn

Even then you'd have to have many diversions to road-only tiles to use up a Freight's 2 mp.

3 is enough
(you lose 2/3 to go RR->r->RR )

Shade