record attempt(yes I am nuts:D )

[shade]

Originally posted by rah
There is a trigger, which we all discussed just what it was. (originally I though it was city count(hitting max)), others thought it was pop, others thought it was a tech. But none of the theory ever were verified. Exceptions always happened. (unless someone did, and I just missed reading about it)

I think I can help you out here:
It's not the cities(just got 227 cities +1 Indian)
It's not the population( got past the max 2x some turns ago)--> now I have 739M ppl( 655M + 84M)
I just am researching Future Tech 61...
maybe it has to do with the total trade-income(tax+science+lux) when it goes over 65.000???
(I'll take a look at the tradethread)
or the #turn(although turn 383???)

Get used to it. But look on the bright size, trade just got easier because they're all gonna suck so micromanagement is not needed.

damn,I really start to get used to things going nuts the moment all seems to get beter....
It was so usefull to get 1 tech out of my trade(I need >16000b now )

I'm actually surprised that I remembered the exact number since it's been a few years.

It's probably a consequence of the shock it gave you at that time...it sure did shock me...

[Little bit OT]

Yello, Xin Yu! Long time no see, at least for me. I disappeared for most of 2001 to try to get a life after The List.

Hmmm...then you are one of the ppl I can thank for that enormous amount of info and ideas for a new civ-game
[/Little bit OT]

Shade

[Straybow]

"…between Wash[1] and NY[1], not even a road connection."

WTF....
Grumble, you must be kidding me, I thought that for those traderoutes it was enough to have your entire city-radius RR-ed...computerlogic
those RR are for swift polutioncleaning and the Go-to command...

I agree with rah that so late in the game you don't want to mess with micromanaging every city connection, but earlier in the game when intraciv trade was much more important (and money much more a concern) you lost out on significant income and trade. That has cumulative effects.

Of course once the route is laid in properly you continue to reap that benefit, double the value of trade routes on the same continent within 22 tiles. Er, how many intracontinent trade routes do you think you have now? And if 2/3rds of them have no rail benefit, and 1/3 have no road benefit that would mean a 25% loss of trade route revenue.

Now that the caravan payoff has turned to crap it probably would be worth your effort to try. For open terrain (no bodies of water to interrupt GoTo route) there is a fairly simple pattern which can be memorized. See the "Great Library" link to find the thread with the "map" in it.

To find the route that the computer checks you'd have to go back to a pre-rail save (or laboriously remove rails) and GoTo with Exps or Parts. Obviously it takes a bit of cheating. If I'm doing more than just one or two quick checks it takes too long, so you might as well edit rules.txt to give the Exp/Part more movement. I just add a "1" in front to make "11" moves.)

I have gone to the effort of creating a cheat map with rails removed in the areas t be tested, cheating Engrs and building cities on sites as new cities are founded in the game, etc.

[rah]

If you see anything that might be it let me know. Record games were the only games that this ever happened to me so I never had enough examples to try to pin it down. You'd think it was one thing, then the next time, that wasn't it so you'd guess another, then that wouldn't be it then you were sick of record games. Not a lot of experience with this bug.

But Since XIN YU checked in here (hi XIN)
Maybe he knows something us lesser folks don't.

RAH

[shade]

Originally posted by Straybow
Of course once the route is laid in properly you continue to reap that benefit, double the value of trade routes on the same continent within 22 tiles. Er, how many intracontinent trade routes do you think you have now? And if 2/3rds of them have no rail benefit, and 1/3 have no road benefit that would mean a 25% loss of trade route revenue.

luckilly 99% of the continents is covered with RR so most of them will have the benefit(I'll keep this thing in mind next time)

Now that the caravan payoff has turned to crap it probably would be worth your effort to try. For open terrain (no bodies of water to interrupt GoTo route) there is a fairly simple pattern which can be memorized. See the "Great Library" link to find the thread with the "map" in it.

I'll look it up...btw I don't have that much open terrain left anymore.
[edit]
just looked it up... I couldn't find what you are refering to(looked in the GL Index)...
[/edit]

If you see anything that might be it let me know. Record games were the only games that this ever happened to me so I never had enough examples to try to pin it down. You'd think it was one thing, then the next time, that wasn't it so you'd guess another, then that wouldn't be it then you were sick of record games. Not a lot of experience with this bug.

I'll post the game so there is an other example to study,(since this is the exact point where it goes bezerk)
more brains looking into it can think more places where the cause lies.

But Since XIN YU checked in here (hi XIN)
Maybe he knows something us lesser folks don't.

just checked out his scrolles again...nothing in there ...
If you are one of the lesser folks what must I be then??

Shade,happy that there are some civ-masters looking over his shoulder.

[TCO]

"fundamentals, man, fundamentals"

[Xin Yu]

Hi guys. I was just fooling around here in the middle of a discussion in the Civ III general forum. I introduced an utility which chould make Civ III run faster but nobody trusted it. It was funny. How are you guys? Do you still play regularly in the evenings?

For the low trade income I can only think of two possibilities other than the ones you have already mentioned. The game will check if your two cities are connected by RRs each time you deliver a caravan. Maybe somehow it suddenly failed to recognize the RRs. This could be caused by a) a barbarian unit stands on the way, and b)you put down a new city between the two trade ones recently, and thus the new city replaces one of the two cities when considering whether they are connected by RR.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
Hi guys. I was just fooling around here in the middle of a discussion in the Civ III general forum. I introduced an utility which chould make Civ III run faster but nobody trusted it. It was funny. How are you guys? Do you still play regularly in the evenings?

Yeah... I noticed that thread... and yeah, it was funny that nobody would trust downloading it. I figure if you recommended it, it must be safe... but they felt otherwise...
I'm doing well... and yeah, we still play pretty regularly.
Rah hosts on Friday night from my house, and he also hosts a Saturday night game. I play on weekday nights when I can find somebody. Do you still play any Civ II?

[Xin Yu]

Ming, it's very late now. Are you a soccer fan? I'd like to play but I don't have time. Everyday I come back from work and immediately start talking to my wife, who is now studying at Ohio state university. That will occupy my best play time -- from 6pm to 9pm PT. So I guess I can't play online until that changes.

[shade]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
For the low trade income I can only think of two possibilities other than the ones you have already mentioned. The game will check if your two cities are connected by RRs each time you deliver a caravan. Maybe somehow it suddenly failed to recognize the RRs. This could be caused by a) a barbarian unit stands on the way, and b)you put down a new city between the two trade ones recently, and thus the new city replaces one of the two cities when considering whether they are connected by RR.

* No barbs anywhere(they are the first job at the beginning of a turn)
* it's the same for all cities(except cities that would already have given a little income <200G)
I only added some coastal cities far away from the trading cities

here's the save for those who want to look for possible other reasons:

[rah]

Hey XIN, yes as ming already mentioned I still play twice a week. Maybe someday your situation will change and you can join in the fun again. (maybe for CIV IV)

The trade thing is universal. Once it drops, they're all like that. (or at least in my limited experience. I may download that game to check it out. SHADE, do you have the turn before also.

And SHADE, I found your one sentence very disturbing.
"luckilly 99% of the continents is covered with RR so most of them will have the benefit(I'll keep this thing in ming next time) "
I really don't want to know.

RAH

[shade]

Originally posted by rah
SHADE, do you have the turn before also.

I'll take a look,with a little luck...

And SHADE, I found your one sentence very disturbing.
"luckilly 99% of the continents is covered with RR so most of them will have the benefit(I'll keep this thing in ming next time) "
I really don't want to know.

RAH

Ok,this really is disturbing...consider it fixed

Shade

[Ming]

Originally posted by shade
Ok,this really is disturbing...consider it fixed
Shade

Thank you...
I was considering banning you j/k

[shade]

Originally posted by Ming
Thank you...
I was considering banning you j/k

Oh all mighty Deity I beg you to forgive this humble sinner his mistakes

Shade

[Xin Yu]

If the drop in profit is global then it could be linked to number of science required to get a tech. If that number exceeds certain limit (most likely 16*16*16*16) then only the residual exceed that limit is counted. And you can get at most 2/3 of that amount from each trade.

[rah]

The first part I could see maybe. But since the drop off is to a max 201, the impact is coming from something else, Something that doesn't vary. And the residual that you mention would vary as you went up in techs.

RAH