Ban HG in Duels and/or MP games

[Makeo]

You guys are talking about completely different games. on a 32x32 double production game early attacking is a viable option.

It does not work in a medium sized map in x1 production. It does not work. I've tried it. A multi session game with single production and larger map is completely different to a single session 32x32 game.

Sure you may take out one civ however the other two have raced way ahead of you.

Ming I put it to you that you have played very few mp x1 games in comparison to AH. Back when I played with you guys we played x2 and that was right when the game came out.

[rah]

Gotta agree mostly with Makeo. Yes, that early in 1x games it's hard to field and army. Heck by 3000 you're probably still only have two cities. Hard to support an army. By 2000, it's good to have 6 down. And they're still so small you're having problems supporting the martial law units let alone a standing attack force. (unless you got lucky with non-units from huts)

But while Ming may be off a bit on when the offensive can start, he still makes a good point that if you start before your oponent with that in mind, they probably won't be ready to defend against a horde of legions.
But it's not going to happen as soon as Ming suggests. And this is assuming that your closest neighbor is close enough to have some fun with.

[Makeo]

Yeah that legion attack force is a good idea if you can get it early.

[War4ever]

in x2 the legion rush can be viable if you get them real early..if not, better wait for pults and march 2 by 2 and stay on high terrain in case he has pults for defence too which these days seems to be the way to go haha.

its virtually impossible to make a decent legion rush in x1 games on a map any bigger than small UNLESS you start REAL close to a neighbor...

plus in x1 games its a land grab rush that happens far longer b/c of the extra terriotry out there...

IMO legions are a waste unless under 1 set of criteria.... there are far better units to use , though perhaps taking a legion for def/off with your pults and pike would be smart, but one legion is one less pult and two less pike...so do the math....its not really viable

[Ming]

If you get warrior code early (usually from a hut, since there is a high probablity of that) legions are only one science away, and come far earlier than cats, and can defend themselves in the field. Yeah... if you don't know where your opponents are, or they are too far away, it doesn't make sense. But even on medium size worlds, if you are playing with four players, somebody will be close.

Legions are excellent weapons of terror. Most of us have seen what a legion barbarian from a hut can do to your "priorities" if it is near your cities... Multiple Legions can do serious damage.

Yes, they come later in 1x production games, but so does everything else. It's all relative. Since you can get them so quick, there is a window of opportunity where they can be devistating, no matter what settings you play. And even when slightly better technology comes, they still stay effective and useful.

The legion is a vastly under rated unit

[DrSpike]

I agree, though it takes something like free WC to make me go legions.....I wouldn't beeline for them without a little push.

[Ming]

Yeah... I wouldn't go into any game thinking that was going to be my strategy. But when you get WC early, and it throws you off the path, ironworks isn't that much of a killer to take. If you are behind and had a terrible start, it's not a bad way to have some fun as well... Your choice is to sit back and stay a few steps behind your opponents, trying your best to catch up even though its more than likely a lost cause, or, you can out and take from them what you need to catch up while doing serious damage to their lead. A lot more fun

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Makeo
You guys are talking about completely different games. on a 32x32 double production game early attacking is a viable option.

It does not work in a medium sized map in x1 production. It does not work. I've tried it. A multi session game with single production and larger map is completely different to a single session 32x32 game.

Sure you may take out one civ however the other two have raced way ahead of you.

Ming I put it to you that you have played very few mp x1 games in comparison to AH. Back when I played with you guys we played x2 and that was right when the game came out.

What I say?

You can do what Ming says but mostly only becomes viable in 1x early AD, by which time you've got decent established cities, have completed early research goals and have had time to build the troopies. By this stage legions don't cut the mustard against good players.

But then you run into the problem I mentioned earlier that whilst you're clobbering one player the other 2 or 3 are leaping away in economic development and of course mil techs. Its very hard to win a war quickly against more than one opponent.

So we tend to sit back and prepare for late game wars. And those are big wars!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ming]

If you kill your opponents early, there won't be any big war's later to wait around for

And yes, if you strike quickly, legions are very effective, and will dice up the "good players"

[HappySunShine]

Obviously your defnition of good players and mine are two different things.

[Alexander's Horse]

That's right - our definition of a good player doesn't involve 2 computers.

[War4ever]

actually its still more than one tech, you need bronze working too.......and when your on the path to monarchy, your not likely to pick up Iron Working before that...so in reality its a few techs of the pace even in the early game.

simply put, in x1 not likely and in x2 there is a better chance of it happening...

[Alexander's Horse]

In 1x you get caught up with the tech and demog race . Its hard to break out of that.

[Ming]

Originally posted by War4ever
actually its still more than one tech, you need bronze working too.......and when your on the path to monarchy, your not likely to pick up Iron Working before that...

Uhhh... I said "When you get WC from a hut and it takes you OFF the path of Monarchy"

[Alexander's Horse]

interestingly I've got WC in 3 games in a row and then got monarchy next choice.