Nicosar's Master Challenge

[Chris 62]

That isn't even a clever DL.

"The father"...ha ha ha ha ha

Chip off the ol block, eh?

[TheFather]

not surprised...

As I expected, so far one post with nothing but insults and lacking any worthwhile content. Actually no content at all, nothing more than an attempt to bolster ones post count and sling mud. Sad really ..... as it is what I have come to expect in such a short time at this forum.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

DL

I mean, c'mon... if you're going to pretend to be someone else, at least TRY to change your writing style a little Otherwise it's no fun playing the DL game with you.

(edited)

[TheFather]

oops

Make that two ... and to think you would expose your ignorance to all by claiming Nicosar and I to be one in the same. Do you think its possible there are "two" persons in the world able to place more than a couple sentences together to form paragraphs?

I didn't think it could get worse, but alas, it has.

For those of you who enjoy the written word (I would guess not many here do) please review the thread on Civ Fanatics wherein Nicosar and I go head to head. Rather interesting really, as we started off rather antagonistic towards each other due to some minor miunsderstandings This should also quell any childish thoughts that Nicosar has created an alias to further his cause here.

This link takes you to the first page of the thread where I begin to participate.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31533&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=3

[Ming]

While you aren't a DL... it's obvious that Nicosar went crying to his buddies and you decided to come over here and defend his honor, or lack of honor as the case may be. A man with honor doesn't need to go crawling to his friends for help... he would stand up and defend himself. But no, the cowardly way out is to beg a friend to do it for him. Your single purpose for signing up to this site was to post in these threads... talk about pathetic...

But it seems you do share another trait with him... The desire to listen to youself speak, and to say in 1000 words what most people can say in far fewer, and far more effectively as well

[Chris 62]

And seeing as I'm a senior Mod at CFC, if I check your IPs, and they match, you still want to play this game, "Father"?

[TheFather]

again ..

Allow me to respond in kind.

You have shown your infinite wisdom by declaring that Nicosar and I are not one in the same, congratulations. However, for you to assume that Nicosar went to cry to his buddies .. well, you know what happens when you make an assumption: you make an ass out of you and umption.

It was rather Atawa, one of your own fine and mature members, who came to gloat his victory on the Civ Fanatics forum and placed a link which led me here. Is that not pathetic? And for you to to call me pathetic for for merely joining and visiting your fine forum is consistent with what I have seen of you thus far Ming. Is that not the reason ANYONE joins the forums, to engage in dialogue and post? Yet you chastise me for doing just that. Your logic is deceiving, indeed. I am no longer disappointed with your useles banter, but amused.

I, like Nicosar, enjoy reading and writing. Is this a flaw? It seems so as you continue to berate those able to compose posts worthy of more than a mere glance. I see nothing wrong with this. Reading and writing are the cornerstone of human intellect. There are books, newspapers, and the internet. I see no reason to limit verbiage to one or two of the three, as each can be equally entertaining. Try to enjoy it rather than insult it.

Lastly, let me congratulate Ming on being the third post here in response to my message which adds absolutely nothing at all to the dialogue, instead continuing to illustrate the ugly atmosphere of this forum, thanks to its moderators, of course.

[edit] Dearest Chris, if you are indeed a senior mod, then your review of the IPs will show that they are not one in the same. Waste your time if you must (if it was so easy to do you would have done it before posting, no? :P). Congratulations, the fourth useless post completely bereft of content worthy of reading!

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I take it back. It is fun

[GenShwartzCough]

In a word.....enlightening

[Zero-Tau]

Re: interesting ...

Originally posted by TheFather
I find this thread disappointing. To be honest, the responses to Nicosar's initial post lead me to believe perhaps many members of this forum were so lazy that they failed to read the text and merely respond alongside the impressions of others.

You're probably right. I think many people have taken a glance at the first post and then not read it. Probably because they thought it way too long. In fact, Nicosar's initial post contains more than 2000 words, and more than 9000 characters. Now that, in itself, is not a problem. The problem is that a lot of the text has very little to do with the thread subject, namely, Nicosar's Challenge. In fact, it isn't until the fifth paragraph that Nicosar starts talking about the scenario he made. Is it really nessecary to write almost 600 words before starting on the supposed subject of the post?

It eludes me where Nicosar looks down on this community in his first statement.

Well... he doesn't. But take a look at his first post in the forum, here. Notice the beginning of the fourth paragraph, where he says: "My point is though, is that Eyes of Night [...] cannot even begin to consider himself the master of the elite, which I am only one out a very privileged few to be able to claim such status [...]" What he says here is basically, "I am better than all of you". That's not a very smart thing to say until you have at least played some games with the forum members so you have something to back it up with.

I, like Nicosar, enjoy reading and writing. Is this a flaw?

No. Enjoying reading and writing is not a flaw. Disability to stop writing when you have nothing more to say is.

[Ming]

Re: interesting ...

Ahhh yes... again, just more insults. It's not the amount of words you use, but what you say. And your words are empty indeed.

Now... point by point.

Originally posted by TheFather
I find this thread disappointing. To be honest, the responses to Nicosar's initial post lead me to believe perhaps many members of this forum were so lazy that they failed to read the text and merely respond alongside the impressions of others.

Didn't you make a comment about "assumptions" earlier.
Because that is all you are doing above...

You also start your "intellectual" post by insulting everybody... Most experts in writing will tell you that insulting your audience is the biggest flaw most novice writers make when trying to debate. Maybe you should attend one of the lectures I have been giving professionally for the last 24 years at Universities and Major Corporations on communication skills.

Have those of you who have responded with such wise and humorous posts even read his initial post?

Yes...

I would think not were I to rely only on the content of those responses. It eludes me where Nicosar looks down on this community in his first statement.

Then maybe you are the one that should go back and read his post with an open eye instead of the bias that you showed with your post.

Further, I see nothing in it to have made him deserving of such hostile comments.

This coming from a person that insults everybody in his first paragragh... no wonder why you see nothing hostile.

While his final paragraph makes statements which are clearly meant to be in the fun and sport of a good challenge, many of you respond with such remarks it seems you have misread, or worse failed to read, his post at all.

No... another silly assumption on your part. I responded as I did because I had read every word he wrote. His condescending tone and arrogance set the tone for the entire thread.

Even more humorous, there are those of you who chastise Nicosar for the length of his post. This does nothing more than insult your own comprehension.- It takes but a mere moment to read a few paragraphs, yet there are those of you who scoff at the idea of spending more than that on such well written prose.

Well written prose... Not a chance. As a person who has had many pieces published, I know first hand what an professional editor would have done to his post. Two thirds of the extraneous and needless words would have been cut.

For the literate, such wonderful imagery is refreshing to the mind, much moreso than reading senseless insults slung like mud during a political campaign, which is how I would describe the posts which follow his.

Refreshing only to somebody else who has proven with this post that they need to take more writing classes.
Again... show his post (and yours as well) to any professional writer or editor... you will learn something.

More importantly, noone has even taken the time to review what he has uploaded. Having done so myself, I am excited about his game and have asked to be among its participants. The slowing of tech and the removal of certain "game-turning" wonders, I feel, is a move in the right direction.

Now this is a matter of opinion, and you are welcome to yours as we are ours. When I read his description, it held no interest. While you see a slowing down of tech and removal of wonders as moving in the right direction, I see it as a bastardization of a game I have played since the day it was released. I love the game, and I see no reason why I should be interested when an unknown and unproven individual makes suggestions that I don't agree with.

While there are those who prefer fast games, small maps and 2x2, as mentioned before, those games result in a bastardization of a game which was meant to allow for strategy to unfold with precise management of one's civ, not speed to the finish line like one sponsored by Gatorade at a nascar event. Certainly, it is obvious the role luck plays in the latter, no? This is only my opinion, mind you, one I share with Nicosar.

Again... your opinion. I can respect you for that. But you should also respect our opinion instead of basically saying the way we play sucks. And luck will play a role in ANY Civ Game... no matter how much you change the rules, LUCK is PART of the game. Your solution is to try to minimize it. One might argue that you then make luck even more important. By having more luck factors, one could argue that it gives the luck a chance to even out during the game. Again... an opinion, just like yours.
Neither is right or wrong.

Speaking to his loss with Atawa, being his first time here I see no fault in his not being aware of the rule of no techs despite the claims that it was discussed, yet the majority of you raise your hands and yell "cheater, cheater" without hesitation, and before knowing the facts.

We do KNOW the FACTS. The game save was posted for all to see. Atawa is a respected member of this community. His honesty has been proven over time. If he claims it was discussed, the majority of us will believe him because of his long HONEST track record in games played with us. Playing MP requires a lot of trust. Overtime, people build reputations... without these reputations and the levels of trust that we hold our fellow players to, there would be no Civ II MP community here. We play for entertainment and fun. People who continue to cheat are not welcome in our games. It takes all the fun out of it.

Now... let's say that Nicosar misunderstood, and give him the benifit of a doubt. In many of our eyes, it is just as bad. He KNEW he started with sciences that other players didn't have, giving him an unfair advantage. And his response to this situation... to say nothing and just play on... willing to take advantage of the situation.
If indeed he did misunderstand, and thought it was ok, why didn't he mention it then...

To me... that says he has no honor, plain and simple.

Even worse, once you do know them, you choose to further sling insults as if the fact that the third player was unaware of the no tech rule is meaningless.

Only the host needs to know since he is the only person that can get free techs... again, read my above comment really carefully... NO HONOR!

You should be ashamed at how you have treated this man. Ming, your words stand above all others as ugly and ignorant, adding nothing to the conversation other than the opportunity to hear yourself berate one with nothing more than a love for this game. Apparently, maturity is not a prerequisite to being a moderator.

He came blasting into this communtiy with a condescending tone and arrogance beyond belief... and then either proved himself as a cheater, or a man of no honor... and we should be ashamed. You reap what you sow, and he sowed the fields deeply...
Maybe you should be ashamed for trying to defend this person.

You can sling your personal insults around all you want, but it doesn't change the FACTS here.

[quote]
Atawa, your victory is noted, and while Nicosar has spoken words of his skill and mastership of Civ he has honorably accepted his loss, stating only that he had a bad starting point (which has happened to us all, indeed).
[/qutoe]

Hmmmm... he did not Honorably accept the loss. He basically made excusses and claimed luck as a factor.
Plus, many of us can win a game when we have bad starting positions... can you?

You on the other hand, with unending support of your fellow posters, have gloated your victory many times over and continued to demean and speak as if you are deserving of some award for winning. I ask you, which of you has acted more as a child calling others names in school?

Well... your buddy came over here claiming he was a master. After reviewing the facts... it was apparent from looking at the game that your buddy is a newbie at best. While he may have had a bad starting position, he mismanaged it entirely... and took his ill gotten two science lead and still managed to fall far behind. And after all that... he still claims to be a master and an honest player after being caught with his pants down.

Whether he knew or not, he showed NO HONOR either way...

In closing, I anticipate more similar comments as seen before concerning the length of this post and my failure to warm up to this community as if you all are so inherently worthy of respect (certainly not from what ive seen in this thread).

Respect is earned... and your friend has given us no reason to respect him. He is a cheater or man of no honor... a man deserving of NO respect.

Let me respond now to save you the effort: If you have trouble reading this post because it contains more than 100 words, I pity you.

Yawn...

As for warming up to this community, if one such as Nicsoar who truly loves this game and posts illustrating his passion, is received such as he was here on this thread, then warming up to this community is not one of my priorities.

If you can spend a 1000 words defending a cheater or a man of no honor... we don't want you

Before lashing out at a man of many years, please take the time to review the thread (unless, of course, it would waste your precious time)

And feel free to do the same with my response. And as far as being a "man of many years"... I'll bet I'm older

The facts are indeed simple here... If you care to ignore them, that's your problem. And I would recommend you do attend one of my communications seminars... you might learn how to get to the point without wasting your audiences time... another fatal mistake that many rookies make

[Chris 62]

What a yawn fest!

Hey "dad", I happen to be a writer, with numerous published work, some of mine can even be seen here at poly, your "holier then thou" crap won't fly with us!

CFC is down, but I did catch that they are both nubes by me, ol daddy here has a dozen posts, the "expert" about 100.

What YOU don't understand is you couldn't have looked worse to the regulars here, your boy came here, bored the hell out of us, launched a challenge, cheated, got his head handed to him, posted double-talk about luck and "not understanding" (BTW, NOBODY is buying your bull that having two techs vs none is either fair or inconsequecial, those of us who play know it's a big advantage, as much as 8-20 turns of early research, if you REALLY understood the game you would know this ), then his "friend" conviently shows to 'chastize" us.

And you expect us to take you seriously?

[TheFather]

*sigh*

Ming, it seems your words do not carry much weight with your own members, as despite your declaration that Nicosar and I are not one in the same (no doubt due to your observation that my provider is quite different from Nicosar's) the drivel continues. What a surprise.

Zero-Tau, thank you for a well written an organized post. The wisdom therein does not go unnoticed, despite the fact I may disagree with you. The length of the initial post (2000+ words) I see as nothing more than an attempt to build up some excitement for a game he is trying to put together. The words are like fancy lures to catch only the smartest and largest fish of this sea you call a community.

Further, I see Nicosar's analogy to Night Eyes as nothing more than a well written challenge, one I am sure he anticipated many would respond to with the same excitement with which he approached the game when modifying it. This is just a difference in opinion, and may be due to my previous knowledge of his posts.

Lastly, "Disability to stop writing when you have nothing more to say is" ... and who is to decide when one has nothing more to say? I would not hesitate in saying that Nicosar had a lot more to say than the countless posts of garbage that followed despite their shamefully brief length. I would hope you agree that it is not the length of the post which determines its value, but the content, and to slander the langthy which at least contains the thoughts of a man interested in a game, and applaud the brief which do nothing but insult and demean is ignorance at its best.

Now onto truly entertaining dialogue involving the post of Ming!! Thank you Ming for such masterful insight into the mind of one with wisdom such as yours.

I am going to be brief so that we may avoid the annoying back forth seen so often in forums, so please do not take my brevity as anything more.

Ming: "Ahhh yes... again, just more insults it. It's not the amount of words you use, but what you say. And your words are empty indeed."

Were my words empty, wise Ming, you would not have composed such a masterful post

Ming: "Didn't you make a comment about "assumptions" earlier.
Because that is all you are doing above... "

This is by no means an assumption, as I have based it on the posts which followed, making clear to me that many had indeed not even read the initial post.

Ming: "You also start your "intellectual" post by insulting everybody... Most experts in writing will tell you that insulting your audience is the biggest flaw most novice writers make when trying to debate. Maybe you should attend one of the lectures I have been giving professionally for the last 24 years at Universities and Major Corporations on communication skills."

I by no means insulted anyone by indicating they didnt read the post. Even some of the posters themselves stated they didnt read it due to its length! YOU being the first!

TF: "I would think not were I to rely only on the content of those responses. It eludes me where Nicosar looks down on this community in his first statement."

Ming: "Then maybe you are the one that should go back and read is post with an open eye instead of the bias that you showed with your post."

Perhaps it would serve you better to quote wherein Nicosar was looking down on the community. For one trained in presenting seminars for corporations I should not have to point this out.


Ming: "Well written prose... Not a chance. As a person who has had many pieces published, I know first hand what an professional editor would have done to his post. Two thirds of the extraneous and needless words would have been cut."

And you say this to say what? That makes it bad, because you in all your wisdom feel a professional editor would have removed what you refer to as extraneous content? To deny that his posts are fun and interesting to read relfects only on your own arrogance, and perhaps inability to do the same.

We will leave well enough alone with respect to our preferred game. I indicated in the thread on CFC, I too was curious why we could not play a normal game, but have since become interested after reviewing his materials.

Ming: "If indeed he did misunderstand, and thought it was ok, why didn't he mention it then... "

I thought he did when he stated he wasnt aware of any such no tech rule. Is that not an indication that there was a misunderstanding?

TF: "You should be ashamed at how you have treated this man. Ming, your words stand above all others as ugly and ignorant, adding nothing to the conversation other than the opportunity to hear yourself berate one with nothing more than a love for this game. Apparently, maturity is not a prerequisite to being a moderator."

I stand by this comment fully. Ming, your manner and tone are shamefully immature and hostile. Then you have the nerve to insult those who point out your hostility. Amazing.


Ming: "He came blasting into this communtiy with a condescending tone and arrogance beyond belief..."

stop deluding yourself, this is not true. Apparently, you feel the need to justify your barbaric treatment of another with these open ended comments.

Ming: "and then either proved himself as a cheater, or a man of no honor..."

again, a misunderstanding it appears. Yet you and others want to go on and on adding to your post count about how he is a newbie, as if it MATTERS! Do you only accept those who are true masters into your ranks? So what if he wishes to add to the competition by typing words to excite enthusiasm. I really dont know what to say to this other than grow up.

Ming: "Maybe you should be ashamed for trying to defend this person."

All I have come here to do is point out that the members of this forum, yourself primarily, responded to this person a bit harshly.

Ming: "You can sling your personal insults around all you want, but it doesn't change the FACTS here."

I am not the one slinging personal insults around, I am merely pointing out the undeserving treatment of a visitor to your forum, my self included now. If that bothers you, try being a bit more open to one who is merely interested in a challenge, the fun you can have with the war of words, and enjoy the art that is posting. The fact you took Nicosar's post personally (which it wasnt), and then are upset (how ironic) by being called immature for your own insulting comments illustrates your own insecurity.

Ming: "Hmmmm... he did not Honorably accept the loss. He basically made excusses and claimed luck as a factor.
Plus, many of us can win a game when we have bad starting positions... can you?"

I do not see stating you had a bad start as cowardly or dishonorable. Your eagerness to jump on such a statement and insult him is more telling in my eyes of your own lack of honor.

Ming: "Whether he knew or not, he showed NO HONOR either way... "

Let it go Ming, your blood pressure will benefit from this. Your fascination with bringing Nicosar down is troubling, both to me and I am sure your physician.

Ming: "He is a cheater or man of no honor... a man deserving of NO respect."

Showing your true colors here. What do you have to do to become mod here? Be a total ass to anyone new who enjoys stirring up competition?

Ming: "If you can spend a 1000 words defending a cheater or a man of no honor... we don't want you"

I see free speech is welcome here at "your" forum Ming. How unsettling.

Ming: "And feel free to do the same with my response. And as far as being a "man of many years"... I'll bet I'm older"

hehe, perhaps old man, perhaps, your age undoubtedly on the brink of infirmity

Ming: "The facts are indeed simple here... If you care to ignore them, that's your problem. And I would recommend you do attend one of my communications seminars... you might learn how to get to the point without wasting your audiences time... another fatal mistake that many rookies make"

Yet another teacher in our midst? While I am sure your communications seminars are worthy of whatever pettance you require to attend, please do not allow any of your potential corporate customers to see this thread, as they would, if they had any sense, not want to be taught communication skills by one such as you. But I dont have to tell you this, as I am sure you see the faults of your posts herein.

Chris 62 - does it really matter how many posts I have on CFC? Does it matter how good a Civ player I am? Is this your only concern, does it make you feel all warm inside to call me a nub? How sad. I certainly hope there is more to your precious time on this earth than such menial things.

Perhaps one day I may have the opportinuty to play with some of you, after which you may come and post what a nub I am, make fun of me, and ensure my continued participation with this friendly and fun group.

Wait, you dont want me anyways

In closing I wish to add that I enjoy posting and reading. I really enjoy Nicosar's posts, despite their inefficency which was so eloquently pointed out by Ming. I find his dialogue fun and entertaining and enjoy repsonding to him (we are not buds, as many of you assume, as we had our own problems on CFC). I, however, do not insult anyone who doesnt post at the level clearly Ming is capable of, despite the lack of any intelligence in half of his posts. Apparently my intent was misunderstood. Sadly, my excitement in finding not one, but TWO Civ2 forums recently has all been overshadowed by the arrogance and elitism of Apoly.

[atawa]

It was rather Atawa, one of your own fine and mature members, who came to gloat his victory on the Civ Fanatics forum and placed a link which led me here. Is that not pathetic?

Not really, if people are going to commit to a game that takes a year to complete they have the right to know IMO that the host is a cheater and cant back up his claims to mastery.

Open up the 'crash ' save, look at placement of those 3 city's.
If you dont even have the basics right dont come barging in here claiming you're the best thing that has come to the game since the game itself.

Atawa, your victory is noted, and while Nicosar has spoken words of his skill and mastership of Civ he has honorably accepted his loss, stating only that he had a bad starting point (which has happened to us all, indeed).

Bad starts do happen, but with his start he should have at least 8-10 city's by now, he has 3 in bad spots.

Face it, your boy just isnt good enough to play with the big boys

Oh and did I mention cityplacement?

[Chris 62]

Your some piece of work friend

Originally posted by TheFather
Chris 62 - does it really matter how many posts I have on CFC? Does it matter how good a Civ player I am? Is this your only concern, does it make you feel all warm inside to call me a nub? How sad. I certainly hope there is more to your precious time on this earth than such menial things.

HA HA HA HA HA
You were just as bad as Nico, a blowhard, telling all of your "vast" knowledge...HA HA HA
There are people here that could defeat your like in an hour.
The point is, your NEW to these communities, yet you introduced yourselves in the most tasteless and classless way possible, and then tried to play psuedo-intellecual.
I have two university degrees, Ming is one of the most respected men in the advertising field with over 25 years in, AH is a government offical in his home of Austrailia...getting the drift?
Your not arguing with children, but professional men, we love a little big talk now and then, but with us, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Perhaps one day I may have the opportinuty to play with some of you, after which you may come and post what a nub I am, make fun of me, and ensure my continued participation with this friendly and fun group.

Anybody would have been happy to give you a game, all you need have done is say "Hi, i'm new, and would like a game".
Excellent players like War4ever would have been happy to play you, but you came on like a druken elephant!

Wait, you dont want me anyways

We don't chase people off here, but if you talk the talk, walk the walk.

In closing I wish to add that I enjoy posting and reading. I really enjoy Nicosar's posts, despite their inefficency which was so eloquently pointed out by Ming. I find his dialogue fun and entertaining and enjoy repsonding to him (we are not buds, as many of you assume, as we had our own problems on CFC). I, however, do not insult anyone who doesnt post at the level clearly Ming is capable of, despite the lack of any intelligence in half of his posts. Apparently my intent was misunderstood. Sadly, my excitement in finding not one, but TWO Civ2 forums recently has all been overshadowed by the arrogance and elitism of Apoly.

I'm affraid tis your own arrogance, still showing, that is the problem.
You couldn't have stumbled on a friendlier group of gamers, yet you and your little friend manged to insult a whole boatload in a handful of posts!

And don't think we are slaves to Ming, he's know as "The Bastard" to a good number of us, but a finer man and game player YOU WILL NOT FIND.

You want our respect, EARN IT.