Nicosar's Master Challenge

[Ming]

Originally posted by atawa
I'm the crappy Babylonian player

Kicking butt again I see... I love when these newbees come in thinking they are the greatest since they always win at SP or have won a few PBEM games...

But I guess you aren't a true game player. Maybe his concept of a true gamer is one that gets his butt kicked, just like he did in this game.

Congrats for knocking him down a peg... he needs a few more such hits across the back of the head.

[Ming]

Gee... maybe he is a master... When he loses, it's pure luck... When (or should I say if) he wins, I'm sure he will say it's skill...



Thanks for the laugh...

And yes, it's ok to post ICQ's and PM's "if" you have the other persons permission

[Flatlander Fox]

Originally posted by Ming


But I guess you aren't a true game player. Maybe his concept of a true gamer is one that gets his butt kicked, just like he did in this game.

HEY, I resemble that remark...


Maybe you should have added something to the effect of how gracefully you lose adds to the "gamer" title.

I've played wargames all my life, and cheerfully take a loss along with a win.

(Well, cheerfully on the outside anyway!)

[DrFell]

Great save Atawa.

100AD and 3 cities? lol, even the AI Chinese is doing better, and they lost a city to barbs! Looks like the master has a lot to learn. Care for some lessons?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by DrFell

100AD and 3 cities?

It takes genius to play that badly

[Ming]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
It takes genius to play that badly

But remember, he did claim to have started on "bad" land... Heck, even on really bad land you should have more than that.

True genius

[Nicosar]

Are you gentlemen through yet? Of course not, this will be going on for quite some time, but that is expected from this hostility I perhaps have roused naively instead of remaining silent and not post anything at all.

Polite Ming? my first post ever at Apolyton was a couple days ago, read it again if you have a bit of stamina, politeness was not an issue unless you consider this seemingly arrogant attitude of mine a meanstreak (though ill admit it can be roused into one), it is only by the, and extremely strange by the way, concerted efforts of attack by your loyal subjects that I was put to feeling. If I am to be blamed for elitism, I should note that it's only because it seems I have come and claimed too much power in somebody elses kingdom rather than offending anybody. (at first of course; after the barrage was loosened I felt no hesitation to retaliate)

...and if you'll notice, I have tried again to regain some better and gentler atmosphere with this thread,using my length in words not as a declaration but as an insight into my true thoughts, but that was quickly, and inevitably, dumped on. That's fine though here's why;

I play games fellows, and right now I have a full game, which has never been an issue with me interms of the long turns, the more complex games requiring a lot of planning in the offturns anyway, and I think that when im done and come back here to invite some otherwise disgruntled players that I will succeed, having vengeful and rash offers of cold and unsportly challenge, but determined and worthy challenge nonetheless. It is good, in some ways, that I have gotten such a reaction, since the only way to get honey from a hive is to stir the bees within to leave their nest in anger, and angry games with bitter feuds can still be worthwhile.

As for this game that has recently been played, it was unfortunate. What can I say? Luck, you must admit, is a factor sometimes, as a person that started in an island, if he didnt have room to expand because of the small map, might complain about, but I make no further excuses,I would've lost this game.

However, I do hope you all realize that you have not seen me in action when given a fair chance, and if you look at the save file you will see that our positions were highly biased, me not having started on that river where my capital is but at the very tip of the south-western desert-nub, which, compared to where Babylon is (the capital), you must agree is a severe and almost wholy-disrupting handicap.

I do not lie though, for it is the distrust among men that is ever the greatest evil, and that nub was indeed my start position. There would be no need to lie even had I the upper hand and still lost, since I am not so stuck in my own head as you would believe but prefer to be a student only of reality's occurences.

I am once again trying to argue with you on logical terms, in the hope of regaining some friendliness among possibly skilled players (I must assume the worst, as you have of me), even though they aid partially in my defense, and urge you to remember the truth which I think you all know in your heads about my abilities being counteracted pre-game by those awful conditions.

Either way, me and this Atawa will face off again, hopefully in a slightly bigger map for expansion first and then war later, and I think that if I get 'lucky' a second time that I will have no choice but to admit to degradation. After all, I dont think even atawa would want to win by some sort of power-rating default and not in a contest of tactics. ( yes, expansion IS a tactic, I know, so please spare me)

Nicosar the Gameplayer....who is nevertheless still not immune to foul fortune...

[Alexander's Horse]

Was I mentioned in that last rant?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Nicosar
Polite Ming? my first post ever at Apolyton was a couple days ago, read it again if you have a bit of stamina,

I read it once, and that was enough...

politeness was not an issue unless you consider this seemingly arrogant attitude of mine a meanstreak (though ill admit it can be roused into one),

Arrogant doesn't even begin to explain the "attitude" that just dripped from your first post. Again, maybe you should take some classes on how to make new friends and earn respect. Looking down your nose at other people will only earn you similar treatment in return.

it is only by the, and extremely strange by the way, concerted efforts of attack by your loyal subjects that I was put to feeling.

ROTFLMAO... shows what a newbie you are. My "loyal" subjects... HA HA HA HA... Nahhh, just a bunch of people responding in a similar fashion to your arrogant and silly attitudes.

If I am to be blamed for elitism, I should note that it's only because it seems I have come and claimed too much power in somebody elses kingdom rather than offending anybody. (at first of course; after the barrage was loosened I felt no hesitation to retaliate)

I guess that your retaliation was getting killed at a mp game against a real gamer... slick move. Yeah, you are an elitist... as you made perfectly clear with your first post. Too bad you can't back it up with Civ II MP skills... Even with your whining of bad land, you standings at the end of the game prove you know very little about the game. Even the rookies that post here could have done better with that starting position.

...and if you'll notice, I have tried again to regain some better and gentler atmosphere with this thread,using my length in words not as a declaration but as an insight into my true thoughts, but that was quickly, and inevitably, dumped on.

Just more elitism and arrogance... you reap what you sow.

I play games fellows, and right now I have a full game, which has never been an issue with me interms of the long turns, the more complex games requiring a lot of planning in the offturns anyway, and I think that when im done and come back here to invite some otherwise disgruntled players that I will succeed, having vengeful and rash offers of cold and unsportly challenge, but determined and worthy challenge nonetheless. It is good, in some ways, that I have gotten such a reaction, since the only way to get honey from a hive is to stir the bees within to leave their nest in anger, and angry games with bitter feuds can still be worthwhile.

Hmmm, he losses a game badly, and all he can talk about is angry Bees... HA HA HA HA HA... By seeing your city count in that game, it didn't look like you had a lot of planning to do. It seemed like your opponent had a lot of planning to do as he had to run a complex empire, while you had only a few basic decisions to make due to your lack of expanding in the game.

As for this game that has recently been played, it was unfortunate. What can I say? Luck, you must admit, is a factor sometimes, as a person that started in an island, if he didnt have room to expand because of the small map, might complain about, but I make no further excuses,I would've lost this game.

Typical whining... I lost due to luck... Even the rookies here can see that even with the Bad Luck you had, you managed it poorly. Any of them could have done better.
Real skill is being able to work through bad luck... a class you seemed to have failed today.

However, I do hope you all realize that you have not seen me in action when given a fair chance, and if you look at the save file you will see that our positions were highly biased, me not having started on that river where my capital is but at the very tip of the south-western desert-nub, which, compared to where Babylon is (the capital), you must agree is a severe and almost wholy-disrupting handicap.

Yawn... read my above comment again.

I am once again trying to argue with you on logical terms, in the hope of regaining some friendliness among possibly skilled players (I must assume the worst, as you have of me), even though they aid partially in my defense, and urge you to remember the truth which I think you all know in your heads about my abilities being counteracted pre-game by those awful conditions.

Just more excuses... You obviously have no experience in "true" MP games... the name of the game is "expand, expand, and expand"... and even with the crappy land you had, you still should have had twice the number of cities. Luck may have played a role in your lossing, but lack of skill determinded HOW MUCH YOU LOST BY.

Either way, me and this Atawa will face off again, hopefully in a slightly bigger map for expansion first and then war later

What... are you afraid to start near somebody... or are you so used to sp mode on super large maps that your strategies won't work unless you are left alone at the beginning of the game

Nicosar the Gameplayer....who is nevertheless still not immune to foul fortune...

Whine, Whine... and more whining... typical. Again, you had a bad starting position, and you failed to deal with it. You will have to do better than that to prove to anybody that you have a clue on how to play a real MP game.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ming

My "loyal" subjects... HA HA HA HA...

Loyal subject

[Ming]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Loyal subject

I just about lost it when he said that. Loyal subjects, in this forum... Just shows what a newbie he is. A good strategists learns the terrain before he fights on it.
But as shown by his poor decision making in the game he played, he obviously hasn't learned the art of war yet.

[Nicosar]

It seems not all are immune to ranting... but do not mistake me, I joke!! I would prefer it a thousand times over again to be accused with long fingers than being nibbled at with little comments by little teeth; please, I thank you for responding to me fully, nothing else!

Look, Ming, I know what you say is true about a good player doing the best with bad luck, but if you had been in my position I think then you might agree that even if I had done better I still would only have 5 cities or so, but could you tell me that all of you would really respect that 'maximum effort for minimum condition' that I would ve displayed by doing that? I will leave this question to the imagination...

Also, I know only too well the disadavantages of playing in a game where human contact is widely separated and even the worst players have a cushion to build up some defenses unmolested, since I think you have hit on exactly the very single fault with playing such huge maps as I have put forward (though I haven't heard any compliments, yet, surely you must agree tis a nice map, no?). But, looking at it statistically, the same situation would be true for a later stage in the game, if those trends would've continued, so that upon meeting, though it'd be a lot later, the same proportions would hold true; i.e., 9 cities to 25, or something. There is a slight sacrifice at the beginning in this respect, but once the game gets sufficiently going then all those defenses made by the weaker player are devastated by the still mightier power of the better one, since they would still only have power equivalent to their skills, despite the time they had to work with them which would anyway be the same.

Just wait, we're playing in just a couple hours...lets save all future arguing until the results of those games! Even If I win, I guess I wont, since we'll be tied 1 to 1, and a third game will be needed! But since he got to decide the conditions of the first two.....

-Nicosar the Gameplayer- loyal only to the infinite vastness....

[Alexander's Horse]

Can this guy say anything in less than 58 sentences?

[Ming]

Ahhh... we are making some headway here. Maybe he does indeed want to join the community instead of just looking down his nose at it

Originally posted by Nicosar
Look, Ming, I know what you say is true about a good player doing the best with bad luck, but if you had been in my position I think then you might agree that even if I had done better I still would only have 5 cities or so,

I would agree that you could have done better. The "true" gamers NEVER give up, and tries their hardest to make up for bad luck at the beginning of the game.
I looked real hard at the save, and the only conclusion I could come to is that you either gave up, or have no clue how to deal with bad starts.

but could you tell me that all of you would really respect that 'maximum effort for minimum condition' that I would ve displayed by doing that? I will leave this question to the imagination...

no imagination needed... we don't like people that quit.
That is the bane of MP games. It is a time commitment that we make. We do this for entertainment. We only ask that people try their best no matter the start, and don't drop from the game because of bad luck. At least you played and didn't drop. Score a point for you!

Also, I know only too well the disadavantages of playing in a game where human contact is widely separated and even the worst players have a cushion to build up some defenses unmolested, since I think you have hit on exactly the very single fault with playing such huge maps as I have put forward (though I haven't heard any compliments, yet, surely you must agree tis a nice map, no?). But, looking at it statistically, the same situation would be true for a later stage in the game, if those trends would've continued, so that upon meeting, though it'd be a lot later, the same proportions would hold true; i.e., 9 cities to 25, or something. There is a slight sacrifice at the beginning in this respect, but once the game gets sufficiently going then all those defenses made by the weaker player are devastated by the still mightier power of the better one, since they would still only have power equivalent to their skills, despite the time they had to work with them which would anyway be the same.

Large maps do indeed give players the option of playing an unmolested game. What skill is that. A true player can deal with adversity and is experienced in doing so.

I've played many games with AWFUL starting positions, and have been able to come back in the middle game. Sure, it takes some luck, but luck got me in trouble in the first place, so I have no problem when it actually helps me later in the game. No matter how skillful you are, luck is a factor. The secret is knowing how to deal with it... bad or good.

Just wait, we're playing in just a couple hours...lets save all future arguing until the results of those games! Even If I win, I guess I wont, since we'll be tied 1 to 1, and a third game will be needed! But since he got to decide the conditions of the first two.....

Nahhh... if you stick around, you will learn that a single game is enough to draw abuse. However, if you win the second game, I will bet you that your opponent will not claim bad luck. He is a good player... and a solid competitor, and will not use bad luck as an excuse.

Get off your high horse... have fun... be entertained.
That's what the Civ II MP forum is all about.

Listen to the whiners... Listen to the chest thumpers...
Respond in kind.

With the release of PTW in the near future, the list of potential opponents for Civ II mp is dwindling. We need all the players we can get. So show some respect to the community that has been playing the game since the day it was released. Join the communtiy. Then you can whine, state your opinion, and enjoy the banter that is traditional in this forum

Keep on Civin'

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ming

Get off your high horse...

Could you quit with the horsist metaphors please?