The History of the World III...

[OzzyKP]

Ah, I missed Frank and Prom's comments above.

I really like Frank's idea for the non advanced native peoples tribe. While I always love a full 7 player game I could go for 6 if his idea is implemented.

Prom's criticism is valid about just bribing them and getting free cities, so we do have to give the AI civ a few decent units and make bribing expensive (though not impossible). Or make it a rule you can't bribe the natives.

Lets see... give them warriors, horse, archer, diplomat, all with pikeman, explorer and perhaps sub bonuses. The archer could be a mean unit. Let them have some buildings too. Marketplace, Granaries, umm, maybe thats it.

Its innovative, practical and could be lots of fun. Lets do it!

[Prometheus]

I am still going for Seven players; it adds a bit more fun, no 3 on 3.

And as far as Geopolitical concerns I don’t know about two in Europe and none in Australia. It was pretty crowed last game with only 6 people in the Old World. However I understand Oz’s criticism of how Europe could be powerful but that might not happen, a bad player or even a good player can screw up, and besides according to Balance of power politics that would mean a powerful European player would only have more enemies to watch out for.

My suggestion,
Australia: 1
Mid East: 1
Central Asia: 1
Europe: 1
East Asia: 1
Africa: 2

But if we only have six players I would suggest Africa only having one also. Or as Oz said if we wanted a challenge, more than one could start in Europe, now if all of us did, that would be a real interesting game.

Anyway what we really have to decide is how the End Game is going to work out so far we have the traditional endings and my suggestion of just ending at a certain date this is something that has to be decided.

Things I think that have been decided…
No SDI
No City Bribing (unit bribing still up in the air)
Tech at least 15/10
Increased Naval/Air unit movement
World Map (Hotw)


We still need to decide
Number of Players(7 or 6)
When we are playing ( Wed or Tuesday = opted for because of Deity)
Who is playing
What Tribes and locations (besides Oz, who is adamantly for Arabs Mid East)
Any new Units/techs
Barbarians in American or not
End Game (how the end will come)
When are we starting

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Prometheus
But if we only have six players I would suggest Africa only having one also. Or as Oz said if we wanted a challenge, more than one could start in Europe, now if all of us did, that would be a real interesting game.

I could be up for that.

Originally posted by Prometheus
Anyway what we really have to decide is how the End Game is going to work out so far we have the traditional endings and my suggestion of just ending at a certain date this is something that has to be decided.

I really like my Alien invasion idea from HOTW2.

Originally posted by Prometheus
Things I think that have been decided…
No SDI
No City Bribing (unit bribing still up in the air)
Tech at least 15/10
Increased Naval/Air unit movement
World Map (Hotw)

I don't care about SDI. I certainly have not agreed on city bribing. It is an integral part of the game. Make it more expensive, but don't take it out. Slowed tech is fine, increased movement is fine. My world map is definately fine.

Originally posted by Prometheus
We still need to decide
Number of Players(7 or 6)
When we are playing ( Wed or Tuesday = opted for because of Deity)
Who is playing
What Tribes and locations (besides Oz, who is adamantly for Arabs Mid East)
Any new Units/techs
Barbarians in American or not
End Game (how the end will come)
When are we starting

-I'm fine with 7, and 6 is good with Franks plan.
-Wed or Tues are good for me.
-I'd like to see some new faces. I'm in I hope.
-I gave my thoughts on this, I deffinately think 2 in Europe is a good idea. There is more good land in Europe than in Africa.
-yea, new units are good.
-Barbs yea, go with Frank's plan.
-Aliens! Aliens! Or some of my other creative ideas from HOTW2.
-Late March or early April sounds good to start.

[Frank Johnson]

Can I see this HOTW map again? I know I played a few sessions on it I'd just like to see it......since we are arguing over starting places.

The problem with trying to increase the cost of city bribing is the only way I know to do it is increase the cost of diplomats and spies.....which also increases the cost of ALL their functions....embassies...etc....

What about wonders? I'm of the opinion that wonders just make the rich richer...and I usually exclude them from diplo games except for apollo and manhattan of course...you may have your own opinions, but later on when I build up a huge army and smack people around usually my #1 excuse is they took all the good wonders and deserve to die..... hehe..and since people tend to put 50 wonders in their capital I end up having to rip their heart out when all I really want to do is weaken them.

But really Capo we need your input....its your mod...so we need him to come and say what he likes.........

[OzzyKP]

The official History Of The World III map is here. Marvel at the detail, accuracy and kick-arse-ness. Pick a spot that you fancy.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
But really Capo we need your input....its your mod...so we need him to come and say what he likes.........

Don't forget this game is for all of us. I just want to say something straight out and prempt any problems that may evolve. Don't let Capo railroad us into doing what he commands. He is an arrogant tool, he knows this, hehe. And he will gladly tell us to screw off if we don't see things the way he does. With his dismal attendence and neverending soap opera that helped end HOTW2 I don't think anyone should stand for his dictates when he makes them.

I don't say this to disparage Capo, he is a wonderful diploplayer, and he makes good mods. He always enriches games, but you've got to be firm with the boy.

[OzzyKP]

boy, now i'm just spamming... hehe.

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
The problem with trying to increase the cost of city bribing is the only way I know to do it is increase the cost of diplomats and spies.....which also increases the cost of ALL their functions....embassies...etc....

Hmmm, there isn't some thing you can toggle to make things cost more? You'd think so since costs vary depending on several factors. Like government and such. There has got to be some number you can change in some .txt thing to make all bribing activity more costly. Problem is one of the benifits of Democracy is the bribing protection, to outlaw bribing is to take away this positive from Democracy.

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
What about wonders?

I like wonders. They deviate from the multiplayer holy grail of "balance" which i think is wonderful. The Saturday Night Diplogame was honestly rather dull since it didn't have wonders. There were no races, it was just build, trade, build, build, trade, invent. Blah, boooring. Wonders give a little spice to the game.

Which brings me to another point. We need to destroy the predictability of these games. My biggest problem with Civ2 is that multiplayer in many ways is no different than single player, everyone has their formulas and things are pretty cut and dry among good players. The Sat. Night Dip all has really good players, that know step by step how to be the biggest and best. Booring.

How to solve this? I dunno, perhaps some random event natural disasters. This just popped in my head 5 seconds ago, so it must be good. Lets say we make earthquakes, tornados, and hurricanes. These can be random Barbarian units that pop up randomly (not too often) and function like cruise missles, striking a close city once, destroying something and then its over. It'd be damn cool. Implement it!

[Prometheus]

Well it is Capo’s baby so he gets a say, but your right once the game starts we are all part of it and no we don’t have to do what Capo says but since this is his game he gets a good say at the beginning.

I like Wonders, but I don’t need them, so I am not worrying about wonders so much, I say just keep them.
But I don’t think we need Natural disasters, the game usually is as interesting as the people who play are willing to be conniving and plotting.

Interaction between people is what makes Diplo games fun.

On that note, I have a laptop and its new and every time I try to download a game from the site, or the map it comes out as a file but never a save or a map file, any idea’s how to fix this?

[Frank Johnson]

Ah.....well the only problem I get in a diplo game is when wonders are around all the good ones seem to fall to one person with the best land, or lucky start, and then no one but me sees the need to knock them down a peg.....and the game devovles from simply boring, to maybe even futile...as pretty soon the top guy and his clueless lackies sit around....waiting for end game.....
Nothing against HOTW2......but.....really there was alot of drama, but no real competativness as any realistic plan to stop deity went down the drains when I left the mongols for college. In the sat night diplo game everyone is a fairly close matched contender, almost, so in the end I'd say it has more competativness and drama because everyone is in the game.

Letting people get powerful wonders then making people reclucant to fight is a bad combination. If I cant do anything about the first, I'll be sure to do soemthing about the other.


But tell me about this alien invasion idea. Its some other way to end the game? If its designed with events, how is it unpartial enough to end the game? Like how would you choose where and in what numbers the baddies would come.......

Also as far as I know theres no bribing constant thing that you can edit. Ive been through the files quite often.....and made a few mods myself....but never saw a way to do this. Democracy doesnt really need anymore benefits, since its the obvious choice for a peaceful nation, and it still has the benefit of players not having to double stack fortified units in fortresses in the feild.

Also your map ain't working (damn apolyton).......says something about the zip being corrupt........

[Prometheus]

Well there was no need to take Deity down so to speak, A diplo game should of allowed people to oppose him with out resorting to military force, a diplomatic coalition or the like, but no one offered a plan of action. We just need to decide on an end game that does not end in World Conquest or Apollo’s, I don’t really care what it is but if you want the best where there is competition and not just nation super growth it cant be Apollo’s
Like I said I have no problem getting rid of the wonders but you should kick out Apollo's too and Manhattans if that is what we decide.

[Frank Johnson]

lol see what I mean......no one is willing to stop anyone else from winning so whats the point :P

[Prometheus]

I don’t think it was that we were not willing to stop him its just we were still on the dual goals of conquest or Apollo’s… its just with everyone thinking two dimensional you lack something, in the real world, they had a race for the moon but it did not end the game so to speak. That’s why for a diplo game deciding the end game is so important and we have to give it some thought.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, below are my posts from the other game with ideas for ending possibilities. My fav is the Independence Day ending, but we need to think creatively to come up with something that will work for all of us.

[OzzyKP]

Drake is right there is absolutly no way we can keep going till 2000, that will take forever.

Though it does present a third ending option. So far we have:

1. Play until a mutually agreed upon date (before 2000 I hope!)
2. Play until AC (Alpha Centuri)
3. Play until all the players have been eliminated except one. (conquest)

Other possibilities:

4. Play until a player or alliance accumulates a set amount of cash. (100,000 or so)
5. Play until a player or alliance can hold all wonders of the world for a set amount of time.
6. Equate the United Nations with world peace and after it is built we all start singing kumbya and walk off into the sunset holding hands as brothers.
7. Build UN and negotiate a peace deal to placate all the warmongers and then if total peace can be maintained peace for a set amount of turns we go to option 6.
8. The first nation to take Deities' cap is winner, or if Deity can hold onto his cap for X amount of turns he wins.
9. Play till year X and then determine winner based on how they treated their nation's environment, minus major points for polution and minus minor points for irrigation and terrain change.
10. Capo can tweak the game so that Aliens land in the form of hyper-powerful barbarians and the world has to band together to meet some scenario condition to free earth from the Aliens.
11. Game ends upon Global Warming.
12. All nations join together in "Hands Across The Globe" demonstration and all nations line up land and naval units which forms a continuous chain around the world.
13. Continue till Future tech X.
14. Continue till living standards of all humans up to par. (i.e. all cities must have certain buildings built)
15. Metalhead empire evolves from the smoking husk of the UAS and takes over the world with their killer riffs and head-banging.


I dunno, there are many possibilities, i'm sure we could all do some brain storming and find some ending that we agree upon which doesn't necessarily have to be the one that the game picked for us. This is a Diplogame, we create the game ourselves, so why not make up a suitable ending? It can be anything, our imagination is our boundries (and our ability to persuade the other people in the game).

It seems no one is happy with the standard endings of world conquest and space ship so think up something else. I put up a list of possibilities pick and debate things from my list or make your own lists to give us more options. The possibilites are endless.

Personally I like the Alien ending, has anyone played the Alien scenario? We could do it like that, but make it harder. It is plausible, think of the movie Independence Day. And we don't HAVE to band together, perhaps if Deity thinks he'd be better able to save the world by conquering everyone he could try that. Or perhaps building the space ship could be tweaked to give us some special edge on the Aliens. There is a lot we can do with this ending, I like it. Maybe we could bring this to the Civ2 Creation forum and see what they can come up with. They might be very interested in this. Anyways, thats my opinion.

[OzzyKP]

Scooby-Doo Ending

Doodily-do-doodily-do Doodily-do-doodily-do

Drake -"Wow, we beat Deity, well that wraps it up, but there's one last thing. Lets just see who you really are Mr."

*Drake removes Deity's mask*

Drake - "Why its old man Withers, the guy who runs the haunted amusement park!"

Deity - "And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for you snooping kids!"