The History of the World III...

[OzzyKP]

Frank- The Alien Invasion/Independence Day ending would work like the scenario sorta. Some event would trigger it, we can decide what. Perhaps the first nuclear strike, perhaps the building of SETI (that works, eh?) or some other late game trigger.

At that point ruthless alien hordes appear randomly across the globe, bent on our destruction. Earth has to band together to drive them from the planet. Also now that I think of it, kinda like the ending to Colonization, when the colony declares itself independent mother country troops appear to try and conquer, if you fend them off, you win.

This can incorporate several different elements of end game. First the spaceship could be used in this ending, either as a trigger, or we could convert it to be some kinda super weapon somehow to aid earth in defeating the aliens.

Secondly it has benifits of being a cooperative win. No one person walks away with the crown. Diplogamings are supposed to be less about winning and loosing (like a ladder match) and more about the fun and creativity involved in playing. This would be perfect for that.

Third, it doesn't totally disregard standard motivations and such in the game. A Deity type player from HOTW2 that wants to be the biggest, best, and best armed nation could do so wanting to be better prepared to defeat the aliens. As I suggested before perhaps Deity from HOTW2 would find it in his best interest to conquer the humans to better fend off the aliens. So this ending skews it towards cooperative, but not devistatingly so.

Fourth, since there is still the uncertainty between conquer and cooperate people will be driven to play better during the game. A player who ruthlessly conquers his neighbors won't be trusted come time for the aliens and will fall. A player who plays super nice won't be powerful enough to fend of the aliens. Nice incentive for diplomacy and interaction.

Fifth, it would be ground breaking, incredibly innovative, and would be a damn lot of fun.


Ok, some problems that Frank pointed out. How would we determine where the aliens would land, could this be unfair and unbalancing? Not if we do it right. If this is a big concern we may want to get someone outside the game to create this part. Someone from Creation or Scenario League, this outsider will make it balanced and fair, and none of us will know about it, so we'll be surprized. Also, since the goal is to drive the aliens from the planet and since this is a more cooperative leaning ending it doesn't matter if they happen to beat one guy more, cause everyone on the planet will be equally hurt and concerned.

I think this is incredibly innovative, and an incredibly good idea. I STRONGLY suggest we give it a try, as other options are less satisfying and realistic.

[Frank Johnson]

Hm well I'll throw some ideas out here.

Statistics Based Ending - An ending based on an agreed formula that is determines victory at a certain point or highest after a certain time.

Armmageddon Ending - Play is as normal to a certain date. Then after that date, the game is made into a scenario, cities labeled objectives, cities with wonders and capitals major objectives. Victory is declared at a certain number of objectives.


MY personal Favorite: Victory by Globalization. Once the UN is built players can opt for a "shared victory" if 3 or more players agree to do so. (if left out, 2 players can form their own pact) The only problem is they must subdue nations outside their pact by seizing their capital and holding it 5 turns or convicing them to join the pact. If a pact member's capital is held by opposition forces for 5 turns, they must surrender, and leave the pact.

[Frank Johnson]

The only option I see that can make your scenario work is this Ozzy. The Aliens would have to be a civ, and they would have to be controled by a human player.

This could work nicely with a 6 player / natives game, because in the end the natives would be small (or gone ) and the aliens could then inhabit that civ. We could design the alien units and deside how many would be a fair fight, but the human player in control would choose where to put these units as they pleased. Its up to the human controling the aliens to be inpartial and use the forces in a manner which takes over the best industrial base, and not be influanced by in game politics.

The AI is just too stupid, in my opinion to waste a good end of game on......

[Prometheus]

Ok, as far as endings…

1.) I have no problem with the Aliens but I just don’t want our game to end with a space ship, and after the Aliens are defeated then what, we still have an ending problem, I don’t like the Super weapon or spaceship. I don’t like the ending to be wonder related
2.) I like Franks of a diplomatic ending but you should change it to 4 people pack if you have 7 in the game, or what ever the majority is.
3.) I also like the idea of time just running out, your rule comes to an end, after all as Oz said it’s more about playing than who wins or loses.

[Frank Johnson]

Pro, the idea about the packs is it doesnt have to be a majority to start, and to win it HAS to include everyone. It still has diplomatic and warful options....and can last as long as needed. For example if it was 4 v 3 in pacts, the 3 can get people to join their side over the 4.....it doesnt really matter.......Its kinda like a communism vs capitalism idealism war that we had that was fought economicly, diplomaticly, and in some places militarilly.....in my scenario now for the real world, it would probably be a 6 v1 pact with the Arabs being the only hold outs from the new world order lololol

[OzzyKP]

Well Prom, defeating the Aliens would be the end of the game. Once their last unit is destroyed then humanity saves itself from extinction and enslavement by the evil aliens. Game over. We glorify ourselves for a game well played. Kinda like the time running out, but time runs out when the Aliens are driven from the planet.

Having a human player take control of the Aliens is a good idea too. Especially if we do 6 people and an AI native population, it'll work just fine. Frank and I talked about this last night and it looks like it is what we are going to do.

It seems Frank, Prom and I are the only ones really planning this thing out, so no whining from everyone else.

[Prometheus]

Ahhh in that case I have no problem with an Alien Ending or pact ending and with what ever you guys decided. Perhaps Frank or Oz could make the Mod pack since we seem to be missing Capo, no offence intended Capo, I know you’re a busy guy so maybe frank can make the Mod if that’s alright with Frank.

My hard drive crashed last night until its replacement arrives I am stuck to the Lab’s computers for now. But I will try to help decide. Lets have some votes.

1.) 6 Players due to the Alien option with Natives in the America’s

2.) SDI

3.) Wonders (Yea, Nah, Some)

4.) Bribing = A. None at all B. No City unless disorder C. complete D. other (Specify)

5.) Day of Play= (Tues Wed)

6.) New Units

7.) Increased Air Navel Movement

8.) New Techs

My Votes

1.) Yes
2.) No
3.) Yes
4.) Option B
5.) Either prefer Tuesday
6.) Doesn’t matter to me
7.) Yes
8.) Doesn’t matter

I think we can safely say that myself, Frank and Oz will all be playing in the game and that we will be using Oz’s world map and most likely if we can implement it the Aliens option or the Diplo Pact option or both. Anything else you guys can think of?

[OzzyKP]

1.) Yes
2.) Doesn't Matter
3.) Yes
4.) Well I'd like C, but I am fine with B.
5.) Either works for me.
6.) Yes
7.) Yes
8.) Sure

Alright, the votes have begun. Now lets reclaim our other players. We seem to have dwindled to 3.

The people who were interested at last count:

Vets
Capo
Deity

Fresh Meat
Deity Dude
Dank
Kuja
Brian Bergs
Flatlander Fox

So this is the question. If we have all us vets in we will only have room for one new guy. It is always fun bringing in some new people. But of course with the way people come and go it is possible for one of us to leave and someone else who didn't start to play the whole game.

Right now I think the people who were interested should post and clarify if they are still interested and vote for the options on the table.

[OzzyKP]

Civ Specific Units?

Would people be interested in Civ Specific Units ala Civ3?

we have 11 spots for new units. 3 of those will be for the natives, 3 for the aliens. Frank is making some new units for everyone, if we had 6 civ-specific units we'd eat up many of those new unit spots. But we could trash some other units that don't get used much.

Civ-Specific units would be cool to have in a diplogame. I think they'd be cool, but I could live without them. What do people think?

9.) Should we make 6 civ-specific units?



9. Yea

[Kuja]

I am still very much interested in playing. As for my vote:

1) yes
2) don't care
3) yes with perhaps an increased cost to build them?
4) whatever is cool with me
5) prefer wednesday, but i can do tuesdays starting at 10 PM EST
6) yes
7) yes
8) eh... depends.. don't care really
9) yes, if i am scots i could have a william wallace or something cool, hehe

[Frank Johnson]

I can pretty easily do special units for each civ. Each civ would get 1 each......and they would be allowed to change it after any session where they had none of the special unit left.

I would have to make you follow some strict rules to make sure the units would be balanced fairly. It would have to be a military unit, no settlers, diplomats, or trade units.

Units would only be allowed to go up 1 degree in any certain catigory, and only allowed to give up 1 degree in any certain catigory to allow for a special. Also you cant make a special unit that is past your tech ability. Ex....you cant make a unit with 2hp untill you have gunpowder.

I'd be the final word on if the unit is legit. You'd just have to put up with that.

[Flatlander Fox]

I can only sub, as my schedule doesn't allow me that much rigidity.

Sounds fun. I will be watching the game.

[OzzyKP]

Well don't stop voting, but lets discuss a bit who people want to be.

Kuja, you want to be the Scots in Scotland? That'd be a good spot to start out I think, access to Europe and North America. In this case I deffinately think a Russian player would be a good idea to share Europe.

I want to be the Arabs. I'm sure you can find my special units from some scenarios. Janasaries or Marmalukes or something. I'll give it more thought when we get this ironed out more.

And Kuja, I don't think special singular units like William Wallace would work. It'd have to be a unit you could build several times, like you could have "Highlanders" or something.

Frank and Prom, where do you want?

Confirmed So Far
Prom
Frank
Ozzy
Kuja

Hurry up Capo.

[Kuja]

yeah, highlanders sounds cool. or guys carrying bagpipes! lol... or what about a navel unit like the lockness monster? just ideas

[Frank Johnson]

You know me......I usually play in China.

I've come up with some guidelines for special units. Basicly the best way to come up with a new unit is to take an existing unit and slightly improve it, or to moderately improve it in one way and slightly disadvantage it in another.

Generally a defense point is worth twice to three times as much as an attack point. This is due to the typical walls and/or terrain and fortification bonuses.

In attack factors, no unit will exceed by more than 1 the attack factor of the best attack factor of the unit of the same movement rate that you currently have available. (thus if you have catapults you can have a 7 attack power 1 movement unit, or if you have crusaders you can have a 6 attack power 2 movement unit.)

No unit whose primary role is defense, or has the same (or higher) defense value of units whose primary role is defense is elligable for a defense increase. (You couldn't raise the defense factor of a phalanx to 3, but you could raise the defense of a chariot to 2.)

No unit will have 2 hp before gunpowder.

No sea unit will have 2 hp before navigation.

No Sea unit will have 3 hp before steam engine.

No sea unit will have 4 hp before automobile.

No Land unit will have 3 hp before mobile warfare.

No sea unit will have 2 firepower before Electricty.

No land unit will have 2 fire power before Machine tools.

Specials cost vary depending on the special ability chosen and the status of the unit. For example, apline ability is twice as good for a 2 movement unit and negating city walls doesnt help much for a 1 attack power unit. Some obvious specials cannot be used untill a certain technology is discovered, try anicent paradroppers, or nuclear submarine spotting sail vessals, and no losing the costal for ships untill navigation (but you could extend the movement and thus your chances for making it across an area). Remmber most air and naval units will already get some sort of bonus.

A special unit must have the role attack, defend, air superiory, naval superiority, or naval transport. (no settlers, caravans or diplos)

Bottom line take an existing unit, and improve it a bit. Or improve it more than a bit and jack up the price, or lose the advantage elsewhere. Also you have the follow the technology guidelines.

You can change the special unit anytime after a session when you have none of the special unit left.